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Transmission Problems

As I was rolling up to a stop sign I pressed the clutch in, hit the brake and the car chugged to a stop and died. The clutch felt like it would not disengage. The car was off at this point, I was able to shift it fine with the car off but if the car is running you cannot put it into gear. The clutch pedal feels pretty normal, but you cannot change gears with the car running. I limped it home by starting it in 4th gear. I think the clutch has failed but I'm not 100%. If I start the car in neutral, depress the clutch pedal and try to push it into any gear it just feels like I am being locked out of gear. It doesn't grind, it just will not allow the gear change to happen. One thing that it does do is cause the car to start to creep forward like something is grabbing when I apply pressure on the shifter to place it into a gear. I hope I explained this well, please feel free to ask questions and to comment. I want to take it to the dealer today but I'm afraid they will deny any possible warranty claim because the MGW Racespec shifter I have installed. There is no problem with the shifter, I got under the car and everything is still connected. It drives fine while in gear, I just cannot change gears with the engine running.

Adam
 
1,022
97
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Texas
So I went to the dealership today and was able to get a look at everything pulled off the car. What happened is one of the springs in the clutch decided it didn't want to stay in it's hole anymore and decided to go on a trip. The spring was 90% out and barely holding on. The interesting part is the smaller spring that is inside the larger spring was no where to be found. The mechanic noticed this immediately when he pulled it apart and said that it was not there when he disassembled the transmission. I'm wondering if the spring has been missing this entire time. If it had come out and was inside the bell housing it should have done some damage and made noise at a minimum but the clutch and flywheel surfaces looked perfect. Could it be a defect in the manufacturing process and it was never installed?

The end state to all of this is Ford said they are willing to pay 70-80% of the replacement and labor costs of the clutch. The rep at the dealership and Ford said they have never seen anything like this and for this reason alone they are going to warranty it because normally clutches are not covered past the 12 month warranty from the factory. I requested they install my McLeod RST instead of putting the stock one back in and charge Ford the labor they were already willing to pay to replace it with a stock clutch, actually saving Ford money because I have my own clutch/flywheel and associated parts but the dealership said no. The rep said they could only install Ford parts and were not willing to install the aftermarket clutch/flywheel. Not sure where to go on this because I have heard of multiple other members getting the dealership to install aftermarket clutches on say a transmission warranty claim. Additionally, they may be replacing my transmission after they take it apart and inspect the internals. It just seems like it would be a sin to put that stock clutch back in when I have the McLeod unit ready to go. Do I have any other options on this? Thanks

Adam
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,545
2,376
Arizona, USA
The "no inner spring" thing may have never been seen before, but we have recorded NUMEROUS instances of the springs coming out of the stock clutches here on this site. Very common failure method with the stock clutch.
 
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Yeah, that spring you're talking about is the same one I referred to in this thread earlier. Your problem is exactly the same as mine. No inner spring. Perhaps it's never there to begin with.

I personally know at least one other person with an MT82 and the same thing happened. It's super common.

I'd vote to ditch the stock unit and move to the McLeod. It's what I did.
 
The clutch is covered under the power train warranty for five years or 60,000 miles. Several of us had Ford pay for the labor if we provided the aftermarket clutch.
 
1,022
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Texas
That's what I thought but the rep at the dealership said the clutch is only warrantied for 12 months. This is why he's saying they are only willing to cover 80% of the repair cost and made it sound like they were doing me a favor. It always blows my mind at how little these guys know about the cars. He was adamant that they will not allow the warranty repair to cover the cost of installing the aftermarket clutch. He said I would have to pay for the time to put just the clutch in then the warranty repair would cover the cost of reinstalling all the other parts, i.e. transmission, exhaust, driveshaft, etc. Very frustrating
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,545
2,376
Arizona, USA
You might want to try calling your Ford Regional Customer Service rep to escalate the situation if you are unhappy with what the dealer has proposed.

If you have any type of evidence of modifications that might cause them to void your warranty (youtube, forum posts, etc) you might want to delete those first.

This post will self-destruct in 5...4...3...
 
1,022
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Yeah, I'm afraid of that too...the mechanic and service rep were willing to look past the aftermarket shifter (MGW Racespec) and not include it in the pics sent to Ford. Maybe I should just take what I can get and move on.
 
So obvious they're trying to get some money out of you... smh
If that Ford rep hasn't seen this failure before, then others have seen it for sure.

It's all up to you if you want to pursue full coverage. Logically, the shifter assembly would not cause a clutch failure of that nature. The failure is clearly due to design or manufacturing method. If I remember correctly, the edge of the spring housing had notches, where cracks formed and started propagating. You can do a quick search and show them some of the clutch failure pictures members have posted here.

Sorry, it's just frustrating seeing these d-bags pulling crap like this. If you have the time, fight it. But I completely understand paying a small sum to avoid the hassle.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
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You didn't mention the amount, what would your out of pocket cost total for them to o/h the transmission under warranty then install your McLeod clutch and new new McLeod Flywheel?

What are we talking about?

302 Hi Pro
 
1,022
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I spent about 30 minutes talking to the head foreman at the dealership today. Looks like the most likely course of action will be replacement or repair of the transmission under warranty and me having to pay for 2 hours of labor to install the pilot bearing, hydraulic throwout, flywheel, and clutch. I really would rather that the transmission is replaced...having the transmission disassembled and put back together I'm afraid it won't last long and they said the warranty will be void after they install the McLeod clutch. The shop foreman and service rep have been good, it's the ford warranty rep at the dealership that's the asshole. He talked to me like I was doing them a disservice by having them do the work to the car. He said it would be unethical and dishonest to have them install the aftermarket clutch even though they are already willing to cover the stock clutch under warranty? They will only reinstall the stock clutch if Ford pays for it and not do mine so that's why I have to pay for the labor. I wonder if they still charge Ford and charge me so they can double dip on the clutch install? In the end of the day I guess if it costs me $200 in labor to get a new clutch installed I'll take it.

I'll post some pics of the clutch later today.

Adam
 
1,022
97
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Texas
IMG_6052_zpsuvvofgdt.jpg

This one shows the scoring on the pressure plate from the clutch spring that popped out

IMG_6051_zpskcwwszhq.jpg

This image shows the scoring on the flywheel side of the clutch. If you look closely two of the four springs have scuff marks from rubbing on the flywheel. The question is why are the springs contacting the flywheel? They were still in place completely but still contacting the flywheel .

IMG_6050_zpsiqtox2wk.jpg

This pic shows the pressure plate side of the clutch. You can see the spring that came out
 
Have them put a new stock clutch in and you might get another four years out of it. My theory is the crappy clutch causes most of the trans problems.

FWIW my local Ford service rep is the one who recommended I buy an aftermarket clutch and they would pay for the labor. He knew they were having problems and wanted a good solution. He knew I was tracking the car too. He stated they would not warranty the aftermarket clutch but would warranty the trans and TOB. They rebuild my trans twice after that with no questions asked. I got to know the owner of the dealership well and he's a car nut with a nice collection. He sold the dealership a year ago to a large auto group and I still get good service there but a lot has changed so I'm not sure I'd have the same results next time.
 
1,022
97
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
10-20 Years
Texas
I just can't bring myself to install the stock clutch again. I would just get rid of the car if I did that. The shifting experience is so bad with this clutch that I just can't do it. Any track that requires the use of 5th gear makes the driving experience so frustrating. I feel like I'm going to break the shifter off forcing it in. The only reason the transmission lasted this long is I shift slow, never power shift and I short shift because shifting above 7k RPM is not possible. I really hope the shifting gets better after the install
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
2,009
437
Southeast
I agree and would do the same. Back in early 2012, Ford replaced my clutch for the same reason. I don't recall the detail on the inner spring, but the disc hub spring was falling out of place. I first noticed a clunking noise when I depressed the pedal.

Replaced the Clutch fluid line with FRPP part, that was $200, but worth it as it fits the car so nicely. At the time, we didn't know the root cause was the clutch. Otherwise, I would have purchased an ACE Dual Clutch.

One thing I do recall is the replacement OEM disc had 5 hub springs which I liked. Also, the boxes were labeled "Product of Turkey". I took some ribbing from the shop techs over that one! All in good fun, those guys all love Ford Performance and Speed! I have a great Ford Dealer.

4 years and 18K miles later, she is shifting well. Clocked 12.4 ET's in the quarter on street tires. So far so good, but when the time comes, I'll go with a new clutch and a BC Stage 1 MT-82.

Always nice to have something to look forward to, Right?

All the Best Adam and good luck with your new setup.
Dave
2HP
 

Mad Hatter

Gotta go Faster
3,919
2,402
Santiago, Chile
Flyboygsxr said:
I just can't bring myself to install the stock clutch again. I would just get rid of the car if I did that. The shifting experience is so bad with this clutch that I just can't do it. Any track that requires the use of 5th gear makes the driving experience so frustrating. I feel like I'm going to break the shifter off forcing it in. The only reason the transmission lasted this long is I shift slow, never power shift and I short shift because shifting above 7k RPM is not possible. I really hope the shifting gets better after the install

Definitely upgrade the clutch, I had the same problems with a barely usable 5th gear and repeated gearbox failures. The upgrades of.. Spec clutch, mgw shifter, Blowfish bracket and B Calimer stage one tranny left me in love with my car all over again. Its the best shifting car I have ever had now.
 
1,022
97
Exp. Type
HPDE
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Texas
Ok, so here's the update on the transmission and repair of the car. They opened up the transmission and I was able to go to the shop and take a look at it. They will be replacing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th assemblies. The tech said they cannot just replace the synchronizers so they will have to replace the whole gear set with the synchros. Overall the internals didn't look bad at all minus the teeth on the synchros being worn off. Nothing was broken, even the plastic shift forks were intact. I fully expected 5th gear to be bad but it looked perfectly fine. The thing is it was almost impossible to shift that thing into 5th above 7k RPM. I don't understand how there was no damage because I would apply so much force to get it into gear. I never got any grinding though on 5th gear, it just didn't want to go in like I was being locked out or something. There were however a lot of small metal particles in the transmission. The magnet was completely covered in metal particles and fibers, it kind of looked like an afro. The tech said that was completely normally and most of the MT-82's he sees are much worse than mine. I was hoping they would just replace the whole transmission considering the amount of labor Ford is paying to repair the transmission. I wonder if it would have just been cheaper to replace? Anyway, the Ford warranty rep is an asshole and is treating me like he is doing me a favor by repairing the car. He said they will not do anymore warranty work on the car after this is done because I am putting an aftermarket clutch in. I hope they at least warranty their work if the transmission breaks a month down the road but I'm not sure. The service rep and technician have been good with me and let me come into the shop multiple times. He also keeps me up to date on what's going on...it's just been that freaking warranty rep with a bad attitude. They were going to replace the original clutch under warranty since the first one failed. I asked him if I could have the new clutch that was going to be covered under warranty and he said no because I was replacing the clutch with an aftermarket one? What do you guys think? Should I push the matter and have them give me the new clutch since the original one failed? I'm still paying the labor to have the McLeod installed so why wouldn't they give me the clutch? If I leave things as is they said I would be looking at about 2 hours of labor at most for the clutch install.
 
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They won't give you the new clutch that you don't want them to install. Make sure the dealers Sr. Management knows how you feel the factory rep is treating you, they have skin in the game since your their customer too.
 
The 5th gear problem is all due to the clutch. I too was sure i toasted 5th, but my internals were super clean... just a bad clutch. I don't understand why theyre not covering clutch install labor, since they were going to replace/install a clutch anyways. I understand they won't give you the new oem clutch, but they should cover even the installation of the aftermarket clutch...

I don't usually like to complain, but if this guy is not treating you right, which is his job, then I'd try to raise the concern to his superiors. Dig online for contact information.
 

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