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Vorshlag updates

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
I was on the phone with Matt at Vorshlag the other day. As the discussion wandered from my original point of calling which was the Vorshlag/Bilstein monotube suspension kit, more on that later. Matt let me know that the white line transmission bushings are still 30 to 60 days out. They are looking at building motor mounts for the S197 Mustang. They are looking at offering a Tremec conversion kit. They have run 12" wide wheels on their GT with 315s all the way around and have tracked it. They will be making fender flares for this and may offer them for the hard core among us.
Back to the Vorshlag/Bilstein suspension kit. I'm ready to pull the trigger on this set up as the price is right and I'm not trying to go hard core. Just firm things up a bit for HPDE that I do somewhere between 6 and 12 events a year. Matt says to go with the K springs for the firmest set up. What a great deal , camber plates, perch's, next level dampers ,lowering springs and they are assembled. He says he can get and put in any spring out there including the new Boss specific ones. They will be testing and rating all the springs soon but he felt the Ks were the firmest of the group. At the same time as the car is stock going to add the adjustable panhard bar and brace along with lower control arms and relocation brackets to the list. They offer these in Whiteline products and have good pricing.
So the cost for these parts is about $2,150. The question is for those that have done similar. What do you think of this set up.
 

isrboss

I would pass on that and go with Eibach R1's along with BMR panhard and brace at that price.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
isrboss said:
I would pass on that and go with Eibach R1's along with BMR panhard and brace at that price.


Thanks for the input. You know I really like Eibach and I think they make just about everybody's springs. There stuff is top notch except for their coil overs IMO. The word is that the internals are sourced from China or some where and they do not hold up well. I would not hesitate to put any Eibach product on the car but their coil overs. I know the price is right but, you get what you pay for. Good coil overs cost $.
Speaking of cost that is what I'm trying to keep in check.
*Vorshlag/Bilstein street pro set up $1,499 +-. Vor/ Camber plates , Bilstein HD dampers and lowering springs of your choice.
*MM starter box 2005+ mustang. $1,483. MM Camber plates ,Bilstein HD dampers ,HR race springs ,mm panhard bar. Another really great deal.
* Coil overs if I was to consider, KW v3s as a starting point $2,600. Plus other parts and the price goes up and up.
I was hoping for some input on the spring selection. So I'm down to K springs, P springs, T springs, Eibach pro or sportline and last but not least HR race springs. MM has a short list recommended springs that I am looking at.
What to do?
 

isrboss

Domestic Product said:
Thanks for the input. You know I really like Eibach and I think they make just about everybody's springs. There stuff is top notch except for their coil overs IMO. The word is that the internals are sourced from China or some where and they do not hold up well. I would not hesitate to put any Eibach product on the car but their coil overs. I know the price is right but, you get what you pay for. Good coil overs cost $.
Speaking of cost that is what I'm trying to keep in check.
*Vorshlag/Bilstein street pro set up $1,499 +-. Vor/ Camber plates , Bilstein HD dampers and lowering springs of your choice.
*MM starter box 2005+ mustang. $1,483. MM Camber plates ,Bilstein HD dampers ,HR race springs ,mm panhard bar. Another really great deal.
* Coil overs if I was to consider, KW v3s as a starting point $2,600. Plus other parts and the price goes up and up.
I was hoping for some input on the spring selection. So I'm down to K springs, P springs, T springs, Eibach pro or sportline and last but not least HR race springs. MM has a short list recommended springs that I am looking at.
What to do?

It sounds as though we heard similar statements about Eibach, but I was told there R1/R2 kits are excellent for the price. If I'm making an upgrade to the dampeners and springs, I also look to get rid of the huge spring perch of the OEM type damper, helps free up room for exotic tire sizes and negative camber. If KW V3's are all you will settle for, then I would say save longer, that's just me. Going through the list of springs you mentioned for the set up you are currently shopping, P/K are the safer more balanced route, just decide how low you would like the car. I would steer off the H&R's they have very aggressive rates, and would appear the rear is on the very stiff side. If you want the car -1.5 to -2 inch go with the sportlines, looks like some members are using these and they have aggressive, but good rates.
 
Domestic Product said:
I was on the phone with Matt at Vorshlag the other day. As the discussion wandered from my original point of calling which was the Vorshlag/Bilstein monotube suspension kit, more on that later. Matt let me know that the white line transmission bushings are still 30 to 60 days out. They are looking at building motor mounts for the S197 Mustang. They are looking at offering a Tremec conversion kit. They have run 12" wide wheels on their GT with 315s all the way around and have tracked it. They will be making fender flares for this and may offer them for the hard core among us.
Back to the Vorshlag/Bilstein suspension kit. I'm ready to pull the trigger on this set up as the price is right and I'm not trying to go hard core. Just firm things up a bit for HPDE that I do somewhere between 6 and 12 events a year. Matt says to go with the K springs for the firmest set up. What a great deal , camber plates, perch's, next level dampers ,lowering springs and they are assembled. He says he can get and put in any spring out there including the new Boss specific ones. They will be testing and rating all the springs soon but he felt the Ks were the firmest of the group. At the same time as the car is stock going to add the adjustable panhard bar and brace along with lower control arms and relocation brackets to the list. They offer these in Whiteline products and have good pricing.
So the cost for these parts is about $2,150. The question is for those that have done similar. What do you think of this set up.

I like the AST 4150 set up from Vorslag.The 450 # springs are great for the track and street. The remote adjusters for the rear are sweet. I am no longer burning up the left front tire. Worth the extra bucks.
 
367
1
Question:

Why not ST coilovers, KW V1 or ground control?
GC has coilovers + yellows + camber plates for 1600 all in. You specify the rates you like.
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
I'm running AST 4100s and Vorshlag camber plates. #425 front springs and #200 rear springs. For the price, you cannot go wrong.

I'm not a fan of the Koni single adjustable dampers. First, it isn't a monotube shock, it's a twin tube shock. Study up on that. Your monotubes are a better damper. Second, I have had to had my Koni's rebuilt no fewer than 5 times in the 3 years I had them on my M3. Sure, the process to get them rebuilt was fairly easy, but the dampers were not abused... shouldn't have needed to get them rebuilt.

I'm also not a fan of Ground Control. Period. End of story.

Maximum Motorsports and Vorshlag are really the only two camber plate companies I would consider with the nod going to Vorshlag with their redesigned plates that offer more adjustment range and larger spherical bearings. I'd feel comfortable running either company's plates on my car (and have run MM on my earlier Mustangs which were track cars).

Everyone has their favorites (me included). Do your research on twin-tube vs monotube shocks. Do your research on Ground Control (if you are planning to go that way). Make an informed decision.

Good luck!
 

captdistraction

GrumpyRacer
1,782
1,322
Phoenix, Az
I'm almost certain the coilover kits are manufactured in the USA for eibach. My car was used by them in some ads, and while I was in Rancho Santa Margarita, I toured a facility where they build the kits, I wasn't able to get a ton of pictures, but here is one of where the coilover struts were being assembled:

magnaflow-9.jpg

With that being said, anything Vorshlag puts together is going to work amazingly well. Those guys definitely have their finger on how to get performance out of the S197 platform.
 
367
1
JScheier said:
I'm running AST 4100s and Vorshlag camber plates. #425 front springs and #200 rear springs. For the price, you cannot go wrong.

I'm not a fan of the Koni single adjustable dampers. First, it isn't a monotube shock, it's a twin tube shock. Study up on that. Your monotubes are a better damper. Second, I have had to had my Koni's rebuilt no fewer than 5 times in the 3 years I had them on my M3. Sure, the process to get them rebuilt was fairly easy, but the dampers were not abused... shouldn't have needed to get them rebuilt.

I'm also not a fan of Ground Control. Period. End of story.

Maximum Motorsports and Vorshlag are really the only two camber plate companies I would consider with the nod going to Vorshlag with their redesigned plates that offer more adjustment range and larger spherical bearings. I'd feel comfortable running either company's plates on my car (and have run MM on my earlier Mustangs which were track cars).

Everyone has their favorites (me included). Do your research on twin-tube vs monotube shocks. Do your research on Ground Control (if you are planning to go that way). Make an informed decision.

Good luck!

Oh trust me, I'm a big bilstein fan and like the monotube design.
However, I don't think it's as black and white of monotube vs twintube (i've owned yellows & pss9's and the bilsteins were superior - so I agree with you 100%). But i think in the end, a good shock is a good shock regardless of design. Each one has their short comings. Having ridden in a KW suspended car, I was mighty impressed at the shock performance -- and these are twin tube.

Anyway, I would state that we (mustang owners) of all people know it's not as simple as the type of technology used in an application. It's how it was designed as a whole. Performance can be extracted from a well built/thought out design--regardless of technology. IE) Solid axle vs IRS :D

Oh and I'll add that yes - if you own AST's, there is no doubt you are a big believer in a proper shock. They make a world of a difference...but for those who are budget challenged (not saying OP is, but just a general statement), I don't see the GC setup being a bad option.

I just wish the Vorschlag setup at least was available with the Steeda Boss springs for their combo deal price (but they are not). The Steeda springs are the most aggressive springs we can get for our car that I've seen (for lowering springs). The front rate is *much* better than anything else out there (FRPP P and K springs included).
 

JScheier

Too Hot for the Boss!
boro92 said:
I just wish the Vorschlag setup at least was available with the Steeda Boss springs for their combo deal price (but they are not). The Steeda springs are the most aggressive springs we can get for our car that I've seen (for lowering springs). The front rate is *much* better than anything else out there (FRPP P and K springs included).

Why limit yourself to a single spring? Move to a camber plate that can be used with any spring offering (OEM perch, 60mm perch, 2.5" perch) and don't be limited. 60mm and 2.5" springs are CHEAP. Don't like the rate, Ebay / Craigslist and find another set of springs to try... and then sell the ones you don't want (not limited to an S197 market).

...and, FWIW, if you are ONLY interested in lowering your car, having a nice, OEM style ride quality, etc, then the Steeda springs are the way to go... no arguments there.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Thanks for the input, really helps. I have really come to rely on this forum to help sort things out for the Boss. The other morning it was off line and I went threw withdrawals. When my car was in at the dealer with the transmission rebuild. I told my tech to go on line and read up on the transmission pole discussion. He did and his comment was , " those guys know what they are talking about". So thanks for everyone's time.
Back to the issue at hand, first Eibach. Eibach like a lot of American company's are allowed to say "made in USA" if a certain % of parts are from here but not all. If the final assembly is here then its made in the USA. I think this is wrong. Eibach is great stuff and if you have their dampers or coil overs I'm sure they are a big improvement over stock. Not trying to dis any ones choices.
For a bunch of reasons I just want to get some good dampers, some better springs, camber plates, panhard bar and the other basic improvements to the rear suspension and then move on to adjustable sway bars ,18"x10" wheels with some NTO1s or 888s. The end goal is a track capable car that I can drive on the street and not hate it. Been there done that.
So the Bilstein dampers are my choice and I think I will go with the K springs. Did not get any feed back on the white line stuff but have only seen one issue with white line and believe it to be installation caused. Vorshlag likes their stuff and that's good enough for me.
For those that are interested Vorshlag has a great write up and video of the Bilstein package its a good read. Informative even if you are not interested in the product. For those of us that have tracked our Boss's stock it will have you laughing.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,545
2,376
Arizona, USA
Vorshlag definitely puts a lot of info out there for people to learn from and obviously tests what they build and install. They seem like a great company with a lot of great products available, IMO.
 
I've run three HPDEs on the Vorshlag plates. Purchased them in January so they are the latest design.

Running them with Ford K springs and Tokico D-Specs. With this set-up, I'm able to get about -3.0 degrees of camber without the spring coils or strut shafts contacting the body.

The plates have been rock solid with no clunks or noise. Also easy to adjust after driving to the track. Vorshlag was great, answered all my questions and even provided some suggested alignment settings based on the tracks I run.
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Bullitt Backwoods said:
I've run three HPDEs on the Vorshlag plates. Purchased them in January so they are the latest design.

Running them with Ford K springs and Tokico D-Specs. With this set-up, I'm able to get about -3.0 degrees of camber without the spring coils or strut shafts contacting the body.

The plates have been rock solid with no clunks or noise. Also easy to adjust after driving to the track. Vorshlag was great, answered all my questions and even provided some suggested alignment settings based on the tracks I run.

Thanks, Vorshlag is awesome! Did you track your car with stock suspension before you added the dampers and springs? If so on a scale of 1 to 10 how much improved over stock? And yes the ideal camber set for the track is 2.5 to 3.0 per Vorshlag. I will most likely run 2.0 as I am on street tires MSSs but we will see. Any pics of your Boss with the K springs?
Thanks for your input.
 
Full disclosure, I don’t have a Boss. I have a 2008 Bullitt. I enjoy this forum since so many Boss owners track their cars. Lots of great info and advice for all S197 Mustangs.

Last season, my setup was stock springs, Koni STR.Ts, and GT500 strut mounts. OK setup for the street but LOTS of body roll and understeer on the track. Also quickly destroyed the outside edges of the front tires (not enough negative camber).

The new setup and alignment is a night and day difference. Much more front end bite and much quicker turn-in. Overall, a more balanced setup. The car doesn’t just turn, it rotates. The negative camber also saves your tires. I run a square setup (275/40/18) and rotate my tires every four sessions. After three track weekends (24 sessions), my tire wear is dead even.

Not sure I can put a number on the amount of improvement. And I didn’t start running a transponder until this season so I can’t give you any lap times.

Sorry, but I don’t have any pics at the moment with the K springs. But the drop is just right with a bit of rake. Completely eliminates the S197 4x4 look. My buddy said, “That car looks mean and ready to rumble.”
 
The great thing about buying from Vorshlag is that they test most if not all of the products they sell...

Based on my experience, they run a tight ship..

Different strokes for different folks.

No one suspension setup will work well for everyone, which is why supporting vendors who actually experiment with varying setups can yield significant dividends.

My $0.02
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
Bullitt Backwoods said:
Full disclosure, I don’t have a Boss. I have a 2008 Bullitt. I enjoy this forum since so many Boss owners track their cars. Lots of great info and advice for all S197 Mustangs.

Last season, my setup was stock springs, Koni STR.Ts, and GT500 strut mounts. OK setup for the street but LOTS of body roll and understeer on the track. Also quickly destroyed the outside edges of the front tires (not enough negative camber).

The new setup and alignment is a night and day difference. Much more front end bite and much quicker turn-in. Overall, a more balanced setup. The car doesn’t just turn, it rotates. The negative camber also saves your tires. I run a square setup (275/40/18) and rotate my tires every four sessions. After three track weekends (24 sessions), my tire wear is dead even.

Not sure I can put a number on the amount of improvement. And I didn’t start running a transponder until this season so I can’t give you any lap times.

Sorry, but I don’t have any pics at the moment with the K springs. But the drop is just right with a bit of rake. Completely eliminates the S197 4x4 look. My buddy said, “That car looks mean and ready to rumble.”

Thanks, love the Bullitt nice car. I think your response of night and day is what I'm looking for!
 

Domestic Product

Big fat tires and everything !
BossJockey said:
OP, why the K springs over the Boss T springs?

Matt at Vorshlag says that a wide selection of springs will work with the Bilstein dampers. Same at Maximum Motorsports. So it comes down to how firm and how low you want to go. I do not daily drive my car and am ok with low. So I'm going with the K springs. It will be really nice when Vorshlag gets all the springs rated so we really know what we are doing. Matt says they are working on that. Sending in any used or un used springs to them and they will test and rate on their site.
 

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