Advice on camber setting for track

[S650GT]

What corner was that and how the hell did you do that? 28 is not a low starting pressure.

Turn 4 in Sonoma. I messed up in my first lap there...

R10/R8 are fine on the street though a bit on the noise side I drove with mine all the time but actually switched to DSUno/OEM Rears and I'm happier my car has never stopped like this. And it's also very good on the street. SRF is great for the fluid but if you can switch to6 pistons brembo's.

For the 4 piston it work as well ? Wha would you recommend for the 4 poison ones?

Is that a summer tire? Perhaps a track tire would have stiffer sidewall.

I swap brake pads between street/track but I use the same rotors. I do not sand them. I never had a good result trying to sand off pad material. It doesn't budge for me.

I run Valvoline 75w140 diff fluid from Walmart, includes friction modifier in my Torsen diff. My exhaust is double heat wrapped around the diff area. I run DIY cooler. I used to turn on a battery powered Lowes shop fan, then back up to it (stopped by wheel chocks) until it was 2" off the diff. That worked fine. Once you exceed 260F diff temp, you should consider adding an active diff cooler. My steady state diff temp is now 230F regardless of session length. I certainly cannot tell what viscosity fluid is in the diff while driving. But I run 140wt simply for the elevated temp on track.

Thats a summer tire yes. So you just bed the brakes? I would assume bedding the r10/r8 will be more efficient than bedding the stock brakes when changing from track to street pads. A more abrasive pad will help remove old material depositions.
For the differential, unfortunately I don't have a cooler so can't know what temperatures I'm running at..My safe bet would be to have a better fluid to protect it as I plan to change it every 2-3 track events. Will the 140wt cause any issue at lower temperatures since it wont be that viscous ? less viscosity -> more resistance-> more wear? Are there any high performance 75W-80 oils? I feel like the 75W-140 will be ok for the track but for daily is well out the engineering specs

 

[TeeLew]

Turn 4 in Sonoma. I messed up in my first lap there...

So that's the FL tire? It looks like you cranked *a ton* of steering in the car and rolled the tire over, but I'm not sure how you could do that with relatively cold rubber and a 28 psi starting pressure. Honestly, I wouldn't read that much into it unless this is a common occurence.

Whether engine or driveline, the low viscocity oils that we're told to run by any OEM is to increase fuel economy, not improve performance or life. I highly recommend running thicker than recommended engine oil and there's no harm to putting a bit thicker oil in the rear end. It will be a little more stable thermally than the lighter stuff and we don't really care about the last 1/2 kph at the end of the straight or fuel economy.

 

[Gunslinger55]

I’m also thinking it doesn’t matter as much as it has been led into believing. One car i have has race brakes from PFC and their directions with “race ready” pads (bedded) is to slap them on and run a few laps hard braking and cooling etc. No mention of sanding when changing pad material. Seems like with the pressures and heat developed it will sort itself out

Swapping some pads out on same rotor I will attempt some sanding as i bought the sandpaper. I am just going to run the track pads on the street unless they are terrible doing so

 

[Gunslinger55]

Whoops the quote did not work on previous post i was referring to sanding discs

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I am just going to run the track pads on the street unless they are terrible doing so

What is the lowest end of the recommended temperature for the pads you selected? They might not have a lot of grip (friction) below that temperature.

 

[TeeLew]

I’m also thinking it doesn’t matter as much as it has been led into believing. One car i have has race brakes from PFC and their directions with “race ready” pads (bedded) is to slap them on and run a few laps hard braking and cooling etc. No mention of sanding when changing pad material. Seems like with the pressures and heat developed it will sort itself out

Swapping some pads out on same rotor I will attempt some sanding as i bought the sandpaper. I am just going to run the track pads on the street unless they are terrible doing so

It depends what materials you're switching to/from. PFC's are relatively aggressive and they are not particularly sensitive when running over another pad material. Pagid is really bad if you try to run it over something like a PFC. The braking is very grabby and inconsistent for a long time. I suppose they eventually start working properly, but it's not just 'a couple laps to mate the surfaces.'

 

[Gunslinger55]

Understood. Just swapped out the front. Yes they are Ford branded Akebono pads. Only one was legible as it was obviously subjected to high heat lol. Still quite a bit of pad left very surprising. Put the glocs on and i did do a 5 minute sand job on each but did not seem like much material on the rotor. One dark streak on rotor drivers side kinda strange but my calipers are pretty beat up from road debris. Going to slap the back on and go for a mountain bed in. I went from the stock akebono to the gloc. Probably get the G1 to slap in for a “road trip” or street driving. We shall see how obnoxious these are on the road but this car heading for dedicated track duty. To be honest the gearing in the Tremec not as daily driver friendly as the gertrag especially in the mountains where you aren't in overdrive. Getrag has 2 and gets better mileage for sure in my 2019 Bullitt. i put a diff cooler in it now i just need engine cooler and trend cooler. Sorry for the thread creep lol

Will report back on Gloc setup.

Also i am going to want to get setup for both cars trackside/garage alignment. I dont mind spending a few bucks on quality gear as it will pay for itself 10x over. What is the best combo of camber and string/tape toe setup to get that’s track and garage friendly? longacre? etc.

Thanks this has been an educational thread

 

[Gunslinger55]

What is the lowest end of the recommended temperature for the pads you selected? They might not have a lot of grip (friction) below that temperature.

Gloc 16/12. i put the brake temp
paint on the rotor and the caliper tape on the caliper.

Are those one time use or will they keep going up as it gets hotter? Probably should have waited to do it trackside.

 

[TeeLew]

Also i am going to want to get setup for both cars trackside/garage alignment. I dont mind spending a few bucks on quality gear as it will pay for itself 10x over. What is the best combo of camber and string/tape toe setup to get that’s track and garage friendly? longacre? etc.

Thanks this has been an educational thread

No brainer for setting toe and it couldn't be cheaper: https://calipergarage.com/products/super-deluxe-string-alignment-kit-bundle

Any of the normal camber tools will work. Here's one: https://smartracingproducts.com/products/smartcamber-kit

I made mine out of a couple pieces of extruded 80/20 channel and a $30 angle finder from Amazon. You can probably find cheaper, but this will be the basic design.

 

[TeeLew]

Gloc 16/12. i put the brake temp
paint on the rotor and the caliper tape on the caliper.

Are those one time use or will they keep going up as it gets hotter? Probably should have waited to do it trackside.

Use the stickers until they've obviously timed out. You can use each one for a long time as long as you're not maxing them. Do you only have the red temp paint? Normally people do the orange and green as well. For the front, you want the green to be completely white, touching the orange...maybe turn it yellow, but not white and don't get into the red. The rear will be a little lower temp, like turning the most of the green paint white, but not getting changing the orange or only lightly into it. That's when your brake temps are right.

If you're lighting off the red paint, you're going to need proper brake ducting to get things under control.

 

[Gunslinger55]

ok great. Got it all covered with alignment. . Yeah only got the red but it supposedly covers all temps. I’m not even gonna worry about the rears. Yeah got genesis red it seems to cover a multitude of temps

 

[Gunslinger55]

whoops i was looking at celsius. lol ok maybe i need the other colors

 

[TeeLew]

No, no you got the fancy stuff....look at the high-roller! My comment was on the red/orange/green single-temp paints. You're all good. Shoot for between the brown and yellow/green color.

 

[Gunslinger55]

Haha ok. Whatever it is it sure stinks

 

[Gunslinger55]

And it was all they had at op mustang lol

 

[Junkyard Dog]

PSA - run 18's. Ford tried to get cute with the original Dark Horse series car & look where they are now. Only run 19's if you have to because of brakes.

18" is great for racing slicks, which is what the Dark Horse R cars are running, because they are real GT4 race cars.

The Michelin Pilot Sport GT M comes in 30/68-18. It is available in S9m or S8M and is a 26.7" tall tire that will fit on an 18" x 11" wheel and tear up the track with record times, so long as you are not driving your car to the track and can stomach the $882 per tire price (and can afford a trailer and tow vehicle).

For those of us who run track day tires, all of the high performance track tires over 26" tall in 305 and 315 come in 19, but not 18. Goodyear Supercar F1 3R, Pirelli Trofeo RS and Trofeo Track.

The 18" tires are mainly 25 to 25 and a half inches tall. Hoosier R8 comes in 315, but it is a 30 aspect ratio in 18, which makes it only 25.6" tall. I am not sure how well that would play along with my car's computer.

All of these tires are plentiful, however, in 19" with 26"+ heights at 305 or 315.

Bridgestone RE71 RZ has a 295/35 in 18 that is over 26" tall (barely), but its tread width is only 10" in spite of the 295 rating.

It seems that the tire choices just are not all that great in 18" wheels for our cars.

 

[S650GT]

Hey folks, I just did my alignment today along with diff fluid change and brake flush with motul rbf 600. Here are the numbers I went with.




I'm also ordering new pads from G-loc . R12 front R10 rear. When I look into the manual for the installation it says that I have to discard the rear bolts and pad clips. Does anyone know the part number for these? Is that necessary to do it (like why isn't necessary for the front?). You have to get new bolts every time you switch pads ? Thanks

 

[GTP]

Put paint marks on the bolts so you can tighten them to the same position.
I just remove the lower bolt and then pivot the caliper up on the upper bolt.
Swap the pads out.
I don't buy new bolts and I don't use any threadlock.
Make sure to align the two V grooves properly when using the rewind tool and make sure the backing plates' pins go into those grooves properly.
Pay attention to the scratchers before removing the old pads so you can reproduce that with the new pads.

 

[TeeLew]

18" is great for racing slicks, which is what the Dark Horse R cars are running, because they are real GT4 race cars.

The Michelin Pilot Sport GT M comes in 30/68-18. It is available in S9m or S8M and is a 26.7" tall tire that will fit on an 18" x 11" wheel and tear up the track with record times, so long as you are not driving your car to the track and can stomach the $882 per tire price (and can afford a trailer and tow vehicle).

For those of us who run track day tires, all of the high performance track tires over 26" tall in 305 and 315 come in 19, but not 18. Goodyear Supercar F1 3R, Pirelli Trofeo RS and Trofeo Track.

The 18" tires are mainly 25 to 25 and a half inches tall. Hoosier R8 comes in 315, but it is a 30 aspect ratio in 18, which makes it only 25.6" tall. I am not sure how well that would play along with my car's computer.

All of these tires are plentiful, however, in 19" with 26"+ heights at 305 or 315.

Bridgestone RE71 RZ has a 295/35 in 18 that is over 26" tall (barely), but its tread width is only 10" in spite of the 295 rating.

It seems that the tire choices just are not all that great in 18" wheels for our cars.

Ya, I suppose that's fair. You can keep your electronics happy with any tire you want if you change tire sizes in ForScan. As long as you're keeping the tires square, it will be some percentage off on the speedometer, but it won't meaningfully effect the T/C or ABS. It will essentially slightly shift the slip maps, which is OK. You'll run into problems if you try to run different sizes front and rear without changing the tire sizes in the ECU.

As far as slicks go, there's also Pirelli, Yoko, Hoosier, Hankook, etc, available. The Michelins are expensive, they are also the best. It's possible to find tires which are still very good, but not quite that spendy. It's a relatively common size.

Yokohama has a 295 and 315 tire which are 18's, I'm not sure on the heights, but you may not want to run those tires.

You raise a good point, though. If you have to run 19's to run the tire you want to run is only produced in a 19, then that's a completely reasonable logic. Having said that, if we have two identical tire width/OD options, 1 is 18" and 1 is 19", I'm choosing the 18. I like having the extra sidewall height and air volume.

 

[bnight]

Hey folks, I just did my alignment today along with diff fluid change and brake flush with motul rbf 600. Here are the numbers I went with.

Get rid of the Motul switch to Castrol SRF.