Cars Suck!

[smittytx]

OK, new alternator, new starter, rebuilt transmission, smaller and adjustable rear bar, extended ball joints and a bump steer kit. I need to rebuild my front shocks but that's not happening, no time (or money). I'm loading up my car Monday and heading for NASA @MMP on the 9th. Then I'm leaving it up there for a month to race in the Nationals. Hopping for a better showing this year (and to stay away from stationary objects :-[).

Hopefully, I won't think cars suck anymore.

 

[VTBoss302]

Hopefully, I won't think cars suck anymore.

You've got to pay to play...

That's one of the reasons this forum is so great..

A lot of real world folks who work hard and play harder.

Go get 'em

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Smitty, what rear bar did you go to and what size did you have in before? I just put an 18MM in and really like the way it feels.

 

[steveespo]

Scott
I'm thinking of going to the 18mm bar too. Let us know what it improves most for you (lateral grip or traction off of the corners) hopefully both.
Steve

 

[VTBoss302]

I'm thinking of going to the 18mm bar too.

D'oh...

Now I'll have to get something else (just to be different)..

 

[yknot]

Edit...let's choose what we say a little more carefully. Thanks, NFSBOSS


Perhaps a larger battery, one with more current capacity, would help the alternator..by being able to carry a larger load during peek usage?

 

[VTBoss302]

Who you talking to???


Nobody here I'm sure of that. NFS

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Trans rebuild???

 

[smittytx]

Smitty, what rear bar did you go to and what size did you have in before? I just put an 18MM in and really like the way it feels.

I think it's an 18, it's what comes on the new S model. The biggest thing is that it's adjustable.

Trans rebuild???

I've had a little grinding problem in the 3rd to 2nd down shift. With all of the races I have watched from the pits this year because of mechanical issues, I didn't want to travel all the way to Utah and loose my trans. Turns out my 2nd syncro was getting bad but 3rd and 4th gears were blue from overheating. It was just a matter of time before they went out. Someone asked my about a whinning sound in one of my videos, apparently that's what it was from.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I've had a little grinding problem in the 3rd to 2nd down shift. With all of the races I have watched from the pits this year because of mechanical issues, I didn't want to travel all the way to Utah and loose my trans. Turns out my 2nd syncro was getting bad but 3rd and 4th gears were blue from overheating. It was just a matter of time before they went out. Someone asked my about a whinning sound in one of my videos, apparently that's what it was from.

Yikes! Does your car have a trans cooler on it? You are going to like MMP.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Scott
I'm thinking of going to the 18mm bar too. Let us know what it improves most for you (lateral grip or traction off of the corners) hopefully both.
Steve

The thing here is I am not an expert in the car or garage, I know just enough of both to be dangerous

Lateral grip in the middle and coming out of turns did fell better but I am not certain of that and someone with more experience might disagree with me. (or credit other parts)

However on the powering off the corners that was a night and day difference from the FR bar that was in the car. You still can not just floor it while the car is not straight but you can get into the gas earlier and harder and it hooks up well.

The only problem here is I can not recommend everybody switch to a smaller bar, it all depends on the overall setup in the car. I was told to add the 18MM due to changes made to my car, coilovers, front LCA's and other parts by racing professionals.

 

[steveespo]

I got you, I have revised front LCA with roll center/bumpsteer correction. Camber plates, P springs and Koni Yellow struts/shocks. Out back I have the FRPP 302S spherical LCA, FRPP relocation brackets. I switched from a 24 mm Brembo bar to the LS 25 mm bar. Just ordered the 18 mm FR500 kit from Watson Racing. Worst case I spend 2 hours swapping bars. What spring rates are you running?
Thanks
Steve

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I got you, I have revised front LCA with roll center/bumpsteer correction. Camber plates, P springs and Koni Yellow struts/shocks. Out back I have the FRPP 302S spherical LCA, FRPP relocation brackets. I switched from a 24 mm Brembo bar to the LS 25 mm bar. Just ordered the 18 mm FR500 kit from Watson Racing. Worst case I spend 2 hours swapping bars. What spring rates are you running?
Thanks
Steve

Swaybar swap should take about 20 mins including jacking the car in the air...2 hours includes lunch off-site?

 

[steveespo]

Swaybar swap should take about 20 mins including jacking the car in the air...2 hours includes lunch off-site?

Damn, tough crowd around here. You are right, an hour to swap 2 times should be enough.

Of course your car is at a SHOP having other mechanics work on it ;D Can't wait to see the final product, what type of cage are you putting in? Watson has pretty cool NASA/SCCA/Gran Am legal kits for about $2300
Steve

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Damn, tough crowd around here. You are right, an hour to swap 2 times should be enough.

Of course your car is at a SHOP having other mechanics work on it ;D Can't wait to see the final product, what type of cage are you putting in? Watson has pretty cool NASA/SCCA/Gran Am legal kits for about $2300
Steve

Yeah looked at the Watson setup but just decided to go custom. Getting NASCAR bars on both sides for when I actually want to take a passenger. I'll have some build pics next week.

Swaybar comes off/on super fast if you have a cordless impact with a couple extensions, 13, 15, and 18mm sockets, and an 18mm wrench.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I got you, I have revised front LCA with roll center/bumpsteer correction. Camber plates, P springs and Koni Yellow struts/shocks. Out back I have the FRPP 302S spherical LCA, FRPP relocation brackets. I switched from a 24 mm Brembo bar to the LS 25 mm bar. Just ordered the 18 mm FR500 kit from Watson Racing. Worst case I spend 2 hours swapping bars. What spring rates are you running?
Thanks
Steve

550/275 on Koni coilovers. I'm not saying it is a waste of time, just can't recommend what will or will not work depending on each setup. I have the same rear setup but a lot depends on the front setup also and front to rear weight ratios.

 

[blacksheep-1]

This is probably another (18mm) case where you should just copy a GS class car, Joe (phoenix) and John (racer's edge) (18mm) among others are usually pretty forthcoming on these things (18mm) The difference is that they have the complete set up that compliments all the other pieces (18mm). Keep in mind though that they are spending big bucks on tires, and when push comes to shove there is nothing that will overcome a sticker set of rubber (18mm). when those cars go to qualify it's usually 1 lap to warm up, three good laps and then the tires start to drop off, you might save a lap or so for a break in traffic but after about 5 laps you're done. You can fudge the pressures a little to get a quicker warm up (18mm) but the first 5 laps are the best laps those tires will ever do. Anything, even the trickest shock spring combo in the universe will be impacted by tires. In short, no tires, no "good" setup.
Did I mention you might try an 18mm rear bar?

 

[2012YellowBoss]

As always good info. Problem is most cars are not setup like the R. If someone was to take a factory car that has understeer built in and then only change to a smaller rear bar, wth no other changes like front camber, the understeer would be worse (correct me if I am wrong).

I suppose you can dial some of that out with decreased pressure in the rear tires but not sure if that alone will be enough.

 

[blacksheep-1]

What you say is true, on a stock vehicle, with engineered in understeer (let's call it push) you would want to "unstick" (bigger rear bar, stronger springs, stiffer shocks) the rear of the car to get it neutral, you could add rear pressure as well. (running stickers on the front but that only works for qualifying) The argument could be made that you should "stick" the front of the car to prevent push but that just makes the car tight, not necessarily a better handling condition, IMO. Then most drivers start throwing the car around, driving the car in sooner, forcing throttle oversteer and generally mucking up the car's balance all the way around. That's just for starters, most of you guys are well beyond that. Once you start changing the car around with coil overs, bump steer kits, roll center kits and etc, then that all changes, that's why all those 18mm bars are showing up in GS.
Still though, balance is the key.

ninja edit to "stickers on the front rather than rear"

 

[2012YellowBoss]

Yea buddy, I agree with that. Learning about understeer and oversteer is harder then it seemed when you first start out with mods. The one thing I have noticed after doing the front LCA's and coilover is that any changes made now are more subtle then when the car was mostly stock. Back then one change, for example running squared, would really change the the way the car handled. Like when we changed the front bar at PBIR, I even got the opposite effect then what was expected.

Balance really is the key, it makes the car drivable even with a push or lose setting. Without the balance I found things like oversteer so bad by the time I would even feel it the car was already turned 90 degrees. After the balance you can work the wheel and use the throttle more effectively. Someone with more experience may be able to drive a heavy Mustang that is loose on P spring with a rake but I could not.

I need to learn more about chaging the front of the car vs. the rear. I find changing the rear easier but as you say it is not always the best way. Must be common for beginners to want to change the rear settings first. So much to learn, under the FL sun baking you no less, it keeps my head spinning.