Crank case relearn and clutch issue?

[Mad Hatter]

I was thinking I had a problem with my clutch these last few months. I had a Spec 1 and it was slipping quite a bit at the track and I could smell it. So I upgraded to a Spec 2+ and had the same problems, but no smell (not organic). This only happened at the track.

Is it possible that I have it all wrong and the issue is not doing a crank case relearn?? I had no wrench lights or codes so I though I was fine. The symptom is a loss of power coming out of a curve as you try to accelerate. It felt kind of like a slipping clutch but there was no racing of the engine.... just a lack of power that would come back on its own a second or so late .... Could it be that the pcm is pulling timing because its all freaked out over the pulse ring???

I took my sct X4 and went to check, while trying to do the relearn it said Missfire detected and I had to try again. After a bit, the relearn went though ok and I will track the car this weekend.

Is this a valid possibility?? Or do I have a problem with the throwout bearing or some such??

 

[Berol]

If you don't have the misfire learn procedure done, you're just going to get a bunch of P061C and possibly misfire codes.

If you smell clutch, or used to, that is totally independent of the misfire relearn procedure. If you want to test how strong the clutch is, get the car rolling at about 20 mph and throw it in fourth, then hammer the throttle down. If it slips the engine will rev up. If it holds, continues to bog and slowly accelerate, the clutch is fine.

Sounds like you have misfire codes if the SCT device was preventing you from doing the misfire relearn procedure. Do you have any codes present?

 

[Mad Hatter]

Thats the funny thing, no codes for a long time now. And I checked at the shop that changed the clutchs, no relearn was done for both spec clutchs (should not have missed that!). Before I did the relearn I checked with my torque app and found no codes. But the first relearn attempt was blocked by a missfire code..... After the relearn I thought the idle was smoother and a little lower.

Will try to slip the clutch again when I get near my car again on Friday. Maybe my Lund tune was stopping the codes??

 

[Berol]

For a clutch swap, especially if they do anything with the fly wheel, you have to do the relearn.

Towards the end of my incredibly frustrating fiasco last year, I gave up and had the dealer replace the pulse ring (requiring fly wheel removal and reinstall). The tech didn't do a relearn. He finished right at the end of business hours and tossed me the keys. I started the car to find a check engine light with misfire codes.

I let the car completely warm up at idle. Then cleared all misfire codes. If I remember right I had a generic P030 code (not one cylinder, just misfires everywhere). Manually cleared all those codes, then did the misfire relearn procedure. Cured the check engine light and no more misfires since.

I think doing the same in your case will help. Doing this after disturbing the flywheel and/or pulse ring is 100% required.

 

[k98dave]

Read many posts on the "relearn" and I'm curious on how is it accomplished exactly? Dealer only process or aftermarket scan tool?

 

[Mad Hatter]

If you have a sct X4 you can do it yourself. Only takes a few minutes.

 

[k98dave]

If you have a sct X4 you can do it yourself. Only takes a few minutes.

Thanks

 

[Racerpilotalan]

Dumb question.
Relearn after a clutch change.
What is the the ECU relearning?
The last car I had with a clutch was my old SCCA Spec Racer, chassis #40, with Renault power.

 

[TMSBOSS]

If the crank wheel moved, the system is relearning exactly where the wheel is in relation to the crank.

 

[Racerpilotalan]

Thanks

 

[Mad Hatter]

Well! went to the track today and the car behaved 100%, no slipping at all day. On the way home I had a few rolling races with a S550 GT with a tune, CAI and axle backs. Could still beat it and the tires chirped going into third. So I guess the clutch is fine!

My best guess is that I was a twit for not doing the relearn right away after the clutch change. The PCM must have been freaking out with out the relearn and pulling timing when the the load was to high. Felt like the clutch slipping or like traction control.

lesson learned!

 

[TMSBOSS]

At least it was a cheap lesson.

We don't get those everyday!! LOL

 

[Mad Hatter]

:.... Already ordered a centric slave cylinder assuming that was the problem, I guess that goes to the spares shelf!

 

[captdistraction]

I was thinking I had a problem with my clutch these last few months. I had a Spec 1 and it was slipping quite a bit at the track and I could smell it. So I upgraded to a Spec 2+ and had the same problems, but no smell (not organic). This only happened at the track.

Is it possible that I have it all wrong and the issue is not doing a crank case relearn?? I had no wrench lights or codes so I though I was fine. The symptom is a loss of power coming out of a curve as you try to accelerate. It felt kind of like a slipping clutch but there was no racing of the engine.... just a lack of power that would come back on its own a second or so late .... Could it be that the pcm is pulling timing because its all freaked out over the pulse ring???

I took my sct X4 and went to check, while trying to do the relearn it said Missfire detected and I had to try again. After a bit, the relearn went though ok and I will track the car this weekend.

Is this a valid possibility?? Or do I have a problem with the throwout bearing or some such??

Can you log it while it happens? that's likely power being pulled for detonation detection (knock sensors). Mine was doing that on a hot day out in Nevada, and I thought it was traction control coming out of a corner until I consumed a valve and destroyed the motor.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I ment to log it but never did...it felt just like traccion control.... at least the car was fine on sunday with no power loss at all after the crank relearn.... I did get my ass handed to me by a Ford Cosworth Sierra though. It is a 10 second 1/4 car with a sequential gearbox. Had semis so it ran in my class. He was 3 seconds in front of me all day with out trying hard[emoji26]


Sent from my SM-G900M using Tapatalk

 

[cmello]

HI Guys

not meaning to hijack the thread - i realise that this is a track mustang site - I'm listed as being from Hawaii has there was no international option - I'm actually from Sydney, Australia and hoping i might get some advice from you guys as my car is heavily modified

Im from downunder (Sydney) and I'm having massive problems since changing the Flywheel and clutch in my car - i haven't driven my car in 6 months and its pretty much living at the ford dealer at them moment throwing up no codes at all - they have to date checked all the wiring for any pinches - clutch sensors, crank sensor (swapped out) and the issue still persists

when i first got the car back from the dealer (different dealer) that installed the new clutch (who has other very high performance mustangs including a 1000hpo twin-turbo setup on his s550) i had multiple misfire codes (0316, 0300, 0307, 0300) and then the car once parked would not start up - eventually i gave it 20 minutes waiting for a tow truck and then i tried again and its started - the car that installed the clutch has tested it with multiple ecu readers including an OEM ford one and could not work out why my car had this issue - he advised he tested the car with a microtec and it was pulsing... and he couldn't understand what the issue is

after being with these guys for 9 weeks - i got frustrated and took my car to an offical ford dealer

the issue is my car will start sometimes - and sometimes not - ford has checked all wiring and cant identify any defects - i saw on another post somewhere that they had change a pulse ring and it rectified the issue - but requires removing the fly etc to get to it

do you guys think this is a good idea or i will be pissing money into the wind

when i sent this to the guys that installed the clutch they showed me on a motor lying around that the pulse ring can only go in "one way" as it has a locking tooth locking it into position and they still had their stock pulse ring on their 1000hp twin turbo car with no issues

any help would be appreciated

 

[TMSBOSS]

Any time the flywheel is unbolted, you need to perform a relearn for the crank sensor. No exceptions
The HP level is not the indicator to upgrade the pulse ring, RPM is. Don’t replace, upgrade.

 

[cmello]

Any time the flywheel is unbolted, you need to perform a relearn for the crank sensor. No exceptions
The HP level is not the indicator to upgrade the pulse ring, RPM is. Don’t replace, upgrade.

Thanks for your reply

i don't actually know for sure - but the original fitter did "say" they did a relearn however cars had starting ever since the install - i wasn't there but on the driver home the car was misfiring left front and centre and then came the starting issue

do you mean replace the pulse ring for the ford performance one? like below
High RPM Competition Pulse Ring

2011-2020 5.0 Mustang GT High RPM Competition Pulse Ring [401227] - $99.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the worlds fastest Fords

Modular Motorsports 2011-2020 5.0 Mustang GT High RPM Competition Pulse Ring [401227] - MMR 5.0L TI-VCT HIGH RPM COMPETITION PULSE RING / Trigger wheel *Billet Design, not stamped steel or welded for increased accuracy *Tighter fit on crankshaft to prevent movement for better repeatiblity...

www.modularmotorsportsracing.com

 

[JAJ]

HI Guys

not meaning to hijack the thread - i realise that this is a track mustang site - I'm listed as being from Hawaii has there was no international option - I'm actually from Sydney, Australia and hoping i might get some advice from you guys as my car is heavily modified

Im from downunder (Sydney) and I'm having massive problems since changing the Flywheel and clutch in my car - i haven't driven my car in 6 months and its pretty much living at the ford dealer at them moment throwing up no codes at all - they have to date checked all the wiring for any pinches - clutch sensors, crank sensor (swapped out) and the issue still persists

when i first got the car back from the dealer (different dealer) that installed the new clutch (who has other very high performance mustangs including a 1000hpo twin-turbo setup on his s550) i had multiple misfire codes (0316, 0300, 0307, 0300) and then the car once parked would not start up - eventually i gave it 20 minutes waiting for a tow truck and then i tried again and its started - the car that installed the clutch has tested it with multiple ecu readers including an OEM ford one and could not work out why my car had this issue - he advised he tested the car with a microtec and it was pulsing... and he couldn't understand what the issue is

after being with these guys for 9 weeks - i got frustrated and took my car to an offical ford dealer

the issue is my car will start sometimes - and sometimes not - ford has checked all wiring and cant identify any defects - i saw on another post somewhere that they had change a pulse ring and it rectified the issue - but requires removing the fly etc to get to it

do you guys think this is a good idea or i will be pissing money into the wind

when i sent this to the guys that installed the clutch they showed me on a motor lying around that the pulse ring can only go in "one way" as it has a locking tooth locking it into position and they still had their stock pulse ring on their 1000hp twin turbo car with no issues

any help would be appreciated

When I looked at the 300, 307 and 316 codes, the possible causes included fuel issues. To me, a random no-start condition is more likely fuel related than crank sensor related. Are you sure that you've got fuel pressure?

BTW - love Sydney - lived in Blues Point Towers for six months back in the 90's.

 

[cmello]

When I looked at the 300, 307 and 316 codes, the possible causes included fuel issues. To me, a random no-start condition is more likely fuel related than crank sensor related. Are you sure that you've got fuel pressure?

BTW - love Sydney - lived in Blues Point Towers for six months back in the 90's.

Yeh I had leaking injectors - and she was leaking fuel from one of the o rings that had been crushed but thats been resolved

I spoke to lund and they think these error codes are kind of proof that no crank re learn was carried out after the install

Fuel pressure is fine they have disconnected my pump and booster and tested them independently with no luck

Yeh thats a iconic building for sure sticks out like a sore thumb but definitely a nice part of the city to live in for sure!

I think I might try change this pulse ring as at this point the engine is dismantled at ford and i dont actually have much to lose