Dark Horse R Press Release

[biggsy]

https://performance.ford.com/series/mustang-challenge/news/articles/mustang-challenge-series/2023/07/dark-horse-r.html

With the announcement of the DHR, what do you guys think? Price starts at $145k. Also cool that IMSA is introducing a new Mustang Series. Anybody thinking about participating?

As much as I would like to start saving for one, at that price I would look for a 911 GT3 or GT4 since I could still drive those on the street. Excited to see them come out and now I’m curious where the DHS is going to be priced at

 

[JP X]

https://performance.ford.com/series/mustang-challenge/news/articles/mustang-challenge-series/2023/07/dark-horse-r.html

With the announcement of the DHR, what do you guys think? Price starts at $145k. Also cool that IMSA is introducing a new Mustang Series. Anybody thinking about participating?

As much as I would like to start saving for one, at that price I would look for a 911 GT3 or GT4 since I could still drive those on the street. Excited to see them come out and now I’m curious where the DHS is going to be priced at

IMSA Mustang Challenge series...how cool is that!

 

[302BOB]

Out of my price range...FOR SURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and I don't need all that track stuff.....just give me a fast car that looks and sounds great...........I might have one here in my garage....let me check...........BOSS 302................Dark Horse can stay unlit for me for now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JDee]

Personally, when I saw the weight of the new car I instantly tuned it out. My gutted '16 base PP1 with no other options is around 3400, the new car (I can't bring myself to type or say "dark horse", it just sounds corny as hell) is just a tick under 4000 lbs. Lard is not a good thing in a track day car.
Not a chance in hell I'd buy one.

 

[biggsy]

IMSA Mustang Challenge series...how cool is that!

Yea I’m excited for that. I’m sure some members in here might compete

 

[biggsy]

Personally, when I saw the weight of the new car I instantly tuned it out. My gutted '16 base PP1 with no other options is around 3400, the new car (I can't bring myself to type or say "dark horse", it just sounds corny as hell) is just a tick under 4000 lbs. Lard is not a good thing in a track day car.
Not a chance in hell I'd buy one.

i didn’t realize it was that heavy. So I’m assuming this R model will probably be 400 lbsor so less? I assume it will be around the same weight difference between a GT350 and FP350S.

 

[JDee]

I guess it depends on how they build this R model. If it starts life as a body in white and goes to Multimatic for cage and so forth, then yeah, it should be a lot lighter. But if it's a production line car I can't see where it's going to be a lightweight. Kind of like the purpose built for racing Boss302 Rs and Ss versus a stock Boss302, a total world of difference.

But for $145K, I think it's going to be a production line car. Didn't the FP350S sell for like $220K? One of those was on BAT and it looks like it was listed for $110K used.

Personally I think this whole Dark Horse thing is selling the sizzle, not the steak. But it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.....

 

[Tractor Junk]

I know it’s too early to be underwhelmed, especially by just pics in a press release. The FP350 and 302S just seem more bespoke and racey. Maybe it’s the wing? I’m sure this is fast, but it’s lacking the sizzle of prior cars.

 

[JAJ]

It doesn't matter a lot how it's built - the only cars that it will ever "compete" with are other Dark Horse R's. It's a driver's battle in the series and at that price point, the series should be a competitive one.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I don't like single make series

 

[TMSBOSS]

I don't like single make series

Agree

They have the smell of IROC. Not bad, just not all that good.

 

[JDee]

We used to have a pile of one make spec series up here, there was the Honda/Michelin series that went on for a very long time, the Players/GM series and the Rothmans Porsche series. The racing was tight, so there were a lot of wrecks. It was entertaining racing in spite of the very frequent wrecks. Close racing also means a lot of contact. But to me it was somewhat uninteresting because the cars were all the same and I wasn't particularly a fan of any of those makes. And I've never been a fan of crashfest racing series, so if this one is true to form to other spec 1 make series I'll likely not be interested.

Then they started Firehawk enduros, 4 hours and up and there were several classes. It was somewhat more interesting due to a lot of different makes and models and I think it engaged spectators (all 6 of them at a typical race) more because of the different makes. Most regional road racing in eastern Canada used to be known as "the secret series" because outside of the competitors there was largely no one else at the track. Maybe a couple of photographers for the 2 racing mags we used to have, and of course the marshals, but that was about it.

But getting back to "dark horse", it's just never going to be a thing I'll be interested in. They've gone in a direction I don't want to go. It's a very lardy car and that kills it for me.

Plus I just spent some bucks on a complete new set of brakes and rotors. I gotta get my money's worth out of that, so that's at least 2 more years of track days with this car. That is assuming it doesn't barf something else and I get tired of the whole thing and walk away from track stuff, again.....

 

[Mad Hatter]

Maybe I am just a cheapo dinosaur type who is stuck in the past... For me, even a stock S197 plus 40.000 grand in a new engine, transmission, wheels and a Cortex setup would probably be faster. And when some one crashes into you, you will not feel so terrible....

Those single car series might be fun for the drivers, but really don't like watching them. Much more fun watching different platforms fighting it out on the track.

Not to mention.... Dark Horse... really?? Must be better names out there.

Reading this, I sound like one of those old Muppets at the theater

Statler and Waldorf​

I "identify" with he taller one.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I'm telling you TA2 is the best deal going, the cars are basically late model stock cars, so if you whack one, you can order a new front or rear clip... pretty cheaply and be going again. the bodies look legit, and are basically pop riveted on so that's fairly cheap as well.They cost about $170K, but you make it up in being able to pretty much infinately maintain the car, you hammer a production car, it's scrap. The one big advantage of the Aston Martin we won the GS championship was that it was a"clip car," the front and rear clips bolted on. the Audi and Mercedes that I worked on were a write-off with just minor damage (same with the new Corvette). The Audi that got totalled would still start, run, drive (and probably still had an alignment) but since it crunched both ends, and the whole car is basically one giant tube/monococque it was junk on the spot.

Road Race Chassis

howeracing.com

 

[blacksheep-1]

Also..

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0309/9505/4732/files/2023TA2BrochureQuestionnaire1129.pdf?v=1669757430

 

[bnight]

I guess it depends on how they build this R model. If it starts life as a body in white and goes to Multimatic for cage and so forth, then yeah, it should be a lot lighter. But if it's a production line car I can't see where it's going to be a lightweight. Kind of like the purpose built for racing Boss302 Rs and Ss versus a stock Boss302, a total world of difference.

But for $145K, I think it's going to be a production line car. Didn't the FP350S sell for like $220K? One of those was on BAT and it looks like it was listed for $110K used.

Personally I think this whole Dark Horse thing is selling the sizzle, not the steak. But it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.....

It's a body in white. It looks a lot similar to an FP350S and i guess in terms of lap times it will be very close. They say it sits between GT4 and GT3 in terms of performance though I can't see how this is possible considering GT4 is twice as much and with a lot more aero. However looks like a lot of you missed the big deal the wheels are Flow Formed and will be sold via Ford Performance but most importantly are 19" and they asked Michelin to build 19" slicks for this cars. This hopefully will mean that we will finally have 19" slicks for our ponies how cool is that.

Besides the build list for the car is really interesting as they didn't do much to the stock Dark Horse engine just a new headers and exhaust and the FP350S oil pan (which if not mistaken is already available via Ford Performance). They do upgraded the cooling in the form of a Setrab 960 oil cooler from FP350S trans and diff cooler also from the FP350S but hopefully FP will put similiar kits on the market for the regular Dark Horse (S550, S650 mustangs).

Regarding the series the calendar will be published in a few weeks and will be interesting to see which teams will join and if there will be seats available. 5-6 weekends race season with Mustangs sounds exciting. Ford also stated that this will be competitive in T1 class which is interesting.

Also I'm really interested to see what the Dark Horse S will be and what it's pricing will be.

 

[JDee]

Also..

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0309/9505/4732/files/2023TA2BrochureQuestionnaire1129.pdf?v=1669757430

Now that is cool. Spec out the ultimate track day car. Would have been nice to see prices just for comparison.
Cost of operation might be less in terms of using race quality build and parts vs street intended build and parts that fail a lot as they're not meant for constant track use.
But race quality parts are going to cost a lot more as well.
I'd want to rent one for some laps first, probably would be way too intense and rough for a 7 decade old guy like me. But it'd sure as hell be fun to try it out!!!

 

[blacksheep-1]

Now that is cool. Spec out the ultimate track day car. Would have been nice to see prices just for comparison.
Cost of operation might be less in terms of using race quality build and parts vs street intended build and parts that fail a lot as they're not meant for constant track use.
But race quality parts are going to cost a lot more as well.
I'd want to rent one for some laps first, probably would be way too intense and rough for a 7 decade old guy like me. But it'd sure as hell be fun to try it out!!!

here's the thing, how much of that price is turn key? if you bought the chassis, and just used a standard 5 or 6 speed with a homebuilt engine and a wet sump, I'm thinking you could drop ... maybe $80K off the price?

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Had heard rumors of the price months back and it convinced me to take a similar road to Biggsy. Not near that price range, but had the car been around 115K max. I might have just robbed a bit more of my retirement savings than I should. Concerned about the weight , the actual price, since I figure it will be quite bare and by the time one adds color, extra wheels and more , $160K might be more of the price.

Even if not as fast , the Boss 302S was one fun car and the old stick axle is proving to many it is far from dead!

 

[LeCarb]

Personally, when I saw the weight of the new car I instantly tuned it out. My gutted '16 base PP1 with no other options is around 3400, the new car (I can't bring myself to type or say "dark horse", it just sounds corny as hell) is just a tick under 4000 lbs. Lard is not a good thing in a track day car.
Not a chance in hell I'd buy one.

I thought the same thing. Why did they make this car so heavy? Is it just going to be for beauty, not for competition?
Hi all.