Darkhorse, first test

[Bill Pemberton]

I don't know why everyone is so concerned about the weight, it seems the 2024 Clydesdale is quite good at stopping and, er, turning.

 

[steveespo]

I don't know why everyone is so concerned about the weight, it seems the 2024 Clydesdale is quite good at stopping and, er, turning.

Those tires must be super grippy. But like most track performance street tires they will give up after 3 laps on track and cycle out performance wise in 3-4 sessions. Maybe not. The acceleration numbers to 60 indicate a great launch which again goes to the tires. Very capable car, would like to see them on track against GT350s on the same tire.

 

[302BOB]

Too many of those diet commercials on TV........"I lost 80lbs in 2 days" and $80 in 2 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!........weight in a race car can be a plus if it is distributived correctectly...........spellcheck going crazy...me too...............

 

[OPMustang Tim]

Those tires must be super grippy. But like most track performance street tires they will give up after 3 laps on track and cycle out performance wise in 3-4 sessions. Maybe not. The acceleration numbers to 60 indicate a great launch which again goes to the tires. Very capable car, would like to see them on track against GT350s on the same tire.

Brakes add weight, which requires more brake, which requires bigger wheels, which adds weight.....in 2024 how are these cars not made with Aluminum doors? Or 100% aluminum? Sure isn't material cost due to the F150 volume. Lighter is safer, more efficient, less consuming. We keep going the wrong direction. Goal should be lighter, smaller brakes, smaller wheels etc. We live in a super sized world I guess. I still swear my 96 Escort had more interior space than my Mustang.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

Bill shows a little bit more in this video, except if the front Brembo caliper on the Brake option is a true radial mount or just an adapter bracket. But he basically confirms that the Brembo brake option gives you the Rear GT500 driveline. When I wrote my blog post on hubs back in March based on the logical conclusion that Ford wasn't going to make a completely new rear hub with bigger axles etc. for a model that they would only produce 2 years.

If anyone is going to pick up an S650 spring for the $1900 brake option, which is available on all models. It gives you the beefier rear and the aforementioned 390mm front brakes. I believe they are not using an aluminum knuckle (GT350/500) but the Mach1 (2021+) steel knuckle with the Ford Explorer hub and using the Brembo derived axial to radial mounting adapter to mount the caliper. Base brakes appear to be the current s550 Brembo.

As we usually do we will get the parts ordered and verify all the parts. Girodisc will already have ring castings for this new rotor so producing hats with the proper offset will the only thing needed.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

I believe this is how Ford is installing radial mount calipers on these cars.
This allows them to use the optimized steering geometry Mach 1 knuckle which is cheap and use it on all models regardless of performance variant.

Parts bin engineering

 

[steveespo]

Too many of those diet commercials on TV........"I lost 80lbs in 2 days" and $80 in 2 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!........weight in a race car can be a plus if it is distributived correctectly...........spellcheck going crazy...me too...............

Sorry, but weight in a racecar is never a good thing. Do lateral acceleration calculations for given weights and given tire grip. Then see what the speeds around a corner of a given radius is are with those constants. Then calculate the acceleration of those differing weights off the corner and up to the point where drag becomes the greater impediment. You will find that lighter is always better. Weight distribution can help mask deficiencies but two cars with the same power, tires, suspension and brakes, the lighter car will always win out.

 

[JAJ]

Fat, very difficult to tune. Very difficult to remove screens, mag ride, dumb exhaust. This is a very good touring street car, but will be limited as a true track/race car. Save your money and buy a Dark Horse R or S if you want a track/race car with modification/improvement capability. The buy in will be higher but to get the level of performance/safety you will spen more and have a lot more headaches trying to modify a street version.

The "build your car" workflow on the Ford website tells you everything you need to know about Dark Horse. The only comfort option the Dark Horse seems to be missing is a hot tub. Making the "performance" seats an option tells us that the styling department is running the show. As you say, Steve, it really looks like a "very good touring street car".

 

[OPMustang Tim]

@steveespo

So this goes into the category of who do you believe? "SAME WEIGHT"

Ford themselves publishes the weight at 4000+. Should be interesting to see where we are when the dust settles. Doesn't quite answer the "why are they slower" again, who knows.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

I can't get into this "dark horse" stuff at all...

 

[Bill Pemberton]

JDee, why can't you get into the Drafthorse thing, she ain't heavy she's my pony!!

 

[302BOB]

OH BOY......Bill, you're out there, on a limb that's fading fast.....................

 

[misterpeanut]

Saw a Dark Horse sitting next to a GT350 at the local cars and coffee here in wonderful downtown Columbia, TN. I wasn't sure which one I'd pick. Probably the Dark Horse because it has a cross plane crank. But the brakes look identical and a number of other features. The all glass dash is not my thing, I like gauges dang it. The number of cracked/broken crankshaft snouts on the GT350 has scared me off. Pfft, none of that really matters when I'm not even a buyer (goes wandering back to his stickaxle machine...)

 

[steveespo]

Darkhorse is heavier than the GTs because of the coolers, add oil capacity, heavier brakes, hubs etc. But I have to admit they are comparable to the GT350s and my PP2 car. That being said do we really weigh cars on truck scales?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Back in the day, the Camaro 1LE was an option that basically deleted everything but the defroster and all the performance options. Several years later the 1LE was so popular it grew all the creature comforts it was supposed to escape.
Looks like deja vu all over again..

 

[Bill Pemberton]

Ford needs to bring back the rear seat delete, and some other items, because the old adage that for every loss of one hundred pounds you drop a second of time on a 2 mile road course. I understand the weight issue, but if they can come out with carbon fiber wheels , they can surely do a CF hood and trunk lid , along with no rear seat and have a lighter pony -- call it the Thoroughbred!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Darkhorse is heavier than the GTs because of the coolers, add oil capacity, heavier brakes, hubs etc. But I have to admit they are comparable to the GT350s and my PP2 car. That being said do we really weigh cars on truck scale?`

Agreed, A truck scale is set up to be accurate with something over 25.000lbs. Playing with some load cells at work and boy does it take some setting up!

 

[mavisky]

Saw a Dark Horse sitting next to a GT350 at the local cars and coffee here in wonderful downtown Columbia, TN. I wasn't sure which one I'd pick. Probably the Dark Horse because it has a cross plane crank. But the brakes look identical and a number of other features. The all glass dash is not my thing, I like gauges dang it. The number of cracked/broken crankshaft snouts on the GT350 has scared me off. Pfft, none of that really matters when I'm not even a buyer (goes wandering back to his stickaxle machine...)

I've seen issues with the GT350 engine, but I haven't seen any increase in cracked snouts on the GT350's over regular 5.0's and I've only seen them on supercharged cars.

 

[302BOB]

Rear seat delete and Nutrisystem go hand and hand...............................said the one who should know.....................