Darkhorse, first test

[bnight]

I can't get into this "dark horse" stuff at all. To me that's just selling the sizzle. The extra weight over the S550 is a big negative, the existing car is already too heavy and the new one is heavier again. Made my decision to buy the Mach 1 easy. Plus big discount on outgoing model helped too!
Picked it up yesterday, what a difference from the '16. The built in rev matching works really well, I was very surprised by that, first time I've had that on a car. But I prefer to do it myself so it's turned off. I can vary the duration and intensity of the blip better than it can, it usually just gives it a big sharp handful of blip and that's not always what is needed.

Did you sell the '16 ? I was fallowing your build. My Dealership has a Grabber Blue Mach 1 on the lot with Recaro's but an A10 . I'm thinking now is the best time for getting an Mach 1. I still think based on Motortrend test that DH HP will do faster lap times than Mach 1 HP stock mostly because it's stop faster and does 1/4 mile 0.6 sec faster than a Mach 1 HP. Also the new steering looks like a huge improvement compared to Mach 1 and S550's. But the price difference should be enough to make an Mach 1 faster and saving money in the process. So Mach 1 is a much better deal.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

I can't get into this "dark horse" stuff at all. To me that's just selling the sizzle. The extra weight over the S550 is a big negative, the existing car is already too heavy and the new one is heavier again. Made my decision to buy the Mach 1 easy. Plus big discount on outgoing model helped too!
Picked it up yesterday, what a difference from the '16. The built in rev matching works really well, I was very surprised by that, first time I've had that on a car. But I prefer to do it myself so it's turned off. I can vary the duration and intensity of the blip better than it can, it usually just gives it a big sharp handful of blip and that's not always what is needed.

Other than the 350, the Mach 1 was the best model for track duty off the showroom.

 

[OPMustang Tim]

So you are saying that GT350 brakes kit is effectively been the same ?
It's not just tire though as Mach 1 is running similar tires but it's stopping 10 ft slower from 60. So this is a good improvment but yeah I'm with you on the stupid bridge bolt design. Mine has the annoying tendency to move. I know that for the GT350 rear conversion you need hubs and Axles etc. So assuming is the same for Dark Horse rears. Also the article says that Dark Horse brakes are 15" front and rears which can't be true as the GT PP1's are 15.4" inches at the front ... Hope someone will measure and gives us the correct information as well as what is needed for a swap to an S550 car (if possible).

The S650 uses the bigger GT500 axles so no, not worth swapping everything over. Just buy an AP kit and move on.

GT/Mach1 use 15" rotors, GT350 uses 15.5, GT500 uses bigger stuff. My point was there is nothing in the S650 braking department that will improve the Stuff already available for the S550. You have 2 choices, run the PP stuff or go AP Racing. Even running GT350 stuff is not worth the weight penalty.

 

[KazarS197]

MH, if someone wants to give you one as a gift............Tell them your long lost cousin (ME) would like one too......I don't care about the color as long as I can shift it.....View attachment 89554

Thank for the morning laugh!

 

[bnight]

The S650 uses the bigger GT500 axles so no, not worth swapping everything over. Just buy an AP kit and move on.

GT/Mach1 use 15" rotors, GT350 uses 15.5, GT500 uses bigger stuff. My point was there is nothing in the S650 braking department that will improve the Stuff already available for the S550. You have 2 choices, run the PP stuff or go AP Racing. Even running GT350 stuff is not worth the weight penalty.

That's my understanding as well regarding options. I was just hoping new options will present themself. AP Racing is to much Track Only option. I still like to think my car is dual purpose.

 

[302BOB]

Mark, Mcmurphy still wants one....Chief will drive..............................the girls will squeeze in the back.......................if they run over that nurse...................so be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OPMustang Tim]

That's my understanding as well regarding options. I was just hoping new options will present themself. AP Racing is to much Track Only option. I still like to think my car is dual purpose.

The PP Caliper, with good rotors, brake pads and ducted brake cooling is your only option. Dual purpose, cheap and available. The only thing you need to swap out is the pads for dual purpose use. We (collectively) have now, a decade worth of experience with these brakes. Ford still utilizes them on the 2024(from the car I crawled under). They simply do amazing things for an OEM set up that you can easily buy replacement parts for anywhere. $1500 all in for track pads and good rotors (Girodisc) and they are daily race car capable.

 

[bnight]

The PP Caliper, with good rotors, brake pads and ducted brake cooling is your only option. Dual purpose, cheap and available. The only thing you need to swap out is the pads for dual purpose use. We (collectively) have now, a decade worth of experience with these brakes. Ford still utilizes them on the 2024(from the car I crawled under). They simply do amazing things for an OEM set up that you can easily buy replacement parts for anywhere. $1500 all in for track pads and good rotors (Girodisc) and they are daily race car capable.

Thanks for that Tim. I'm down that rabbit hole to be fair missing only the Girodisc and ducted brake cooling because my front lower grill is different than a PP1 lower grill don't know why.

 

[stevbd]

I love that Ford is still building these and I want to be supportive but how in the hell did this thing get to 4,000 lbs? Isn't it basically a Mach 1 under the skin?

I took my 2011 GT to a commercial scale recently and it is 3600. The scale operator swore it was certified to within 10 lbs but I didn't ask for proof. I was pleasantly surprised. That was with 1/2 tank of fuel, glass roof, "premium" package (heavy subwoofers in the doors), and a full size spare and jack in the trunk.

But 400 lbs more? That has got to be noticeable. And I thought my car was fat. This feels like that guy who famously criticized government spending, "a billion here and billion there and pretty soon you're talking real money."

 

[dragoon]

I love that Ford is still building these and I want to be supportive but how in the hell did this thing get to 4,000 lbs? Isn't it basically a Mach 1 under the skin?

I took my 2011 GT to a commercial scale recently and it is 3600. The scale operator swore it was certified to within 10 lbs but I didn't ask for proof. I was pleasantly surprised. That was with 1/2 tank of fuel, glass roof, "premium" package (heavy subwoofers in the doors), and a full size spare and jack in the trunk.

But 400 lbs more? That has got to be noticeable. And I thought my car was fat. This feels like that guy who famously criticized government spending, "a billion here and billion there and pretty soon you're talking real money."

My mach1 HP with cloth Recaro’s has a curb weight of 3,844 # minus a tank of fuel. Add 125# of fuel and you got 4,094#. The curb weight came from the certificate of origin/manufacture from Ford. Imagine the weight of a HP with leather heated/cooled power seats, big sound system, appearance and elite packages ?

 

[Tonymustang302]

Mach 1> Gt350 > pp2 > DH

 

[Mad Hatter]

But why does it weigh as much as a GT500??? I can imagine the track consumption rate in tires and pads.

 

[steveespo]

Fat, very difficult to tune. Very difficult to remove screens, mag ride, dumb exhaust. This is a very good touring street car, but will be limited as a true track/race car. Save your money and buy a Dark Horse R or S if you want a track/race car with modification/improvement capability. The buy in will be higher but to get the level of performance/safety you will spen more and have a lot more headaches trying to modify a street version.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Chariot axle for me!! Like to keep it simple..... Grump olde(ish) guy.

 

[bnight]

Fat, very difficult to tune. Very difficult to remove screens, mag ride, dumb exhaust. This is a very good touring street car, but will be limited as a true track/race car. Save your money and buy a Dark Horse R or S if you want a track/race car with modification/improvement capability. The buy in will be higher but to get the level of performance/safety you will spen more and have a lot more headaches trying to modify a street version.

We still don't know what the S will be or if it's still happening. But the Dark Horse R is the real deal for us track head guys it's cool it will be fast it has better cooling than a regular Dark Horse. And it has all the safety needed. This car is a dream. I'm so happy that Ford really delivered on the promise for a poster Mustang (Dark Horse R, GT3, GTD) are all cars that worth hanging on your walls.

 

[twistedneck]

Pretty impressive stats, especially on the braking.

I was talking with some of the engineers about it.. great car but why are these getting so heavy? not that i care, i see them running around town in Dearborn and i wish i could trade in my new Bronco and sell my S197 race car..

 

[Fabman]

But why does it weigh as much as a GT500??? I can imagine the track consumption rate in tires and pads.

Have you driven an s550 in anger?
They make our stick axel cars feel like covered wagons.

 

[EF1]

The stick axle is part of the charm of the S197. I like that I feel like I am driving it instead of it taking me for a ride. I agree the S550 feels easier to drive fast on track.

 

[steveespo]

Have you driven an s550 in anger?
They make our stick axel cars feel like covered wagons.

And it's not just the IRS, the front suspension design allows for a better camber curve and much freer articulation. The IRS makes the car more predictable and much smoother especially when using lots of curb. When I drive my old car I can't get back to the rhythm I used to be able to develop, to be honest it can scare me sometimes approaching corner entry the way I used to do it pre 2016. That being said in the hands of a maestro, they are still very competitive on track, the 75 lb typical weight advantage really shows in certain areas.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Have you driven an s550 in anger?
They make our stick axel cars feel like covered wagons.

Yes! I did, A friend passed me his S550 with a upgraded suspension and the usual motor add-ons. Very nice, very easy to drive, but found it a little to civilized for me, not to mention heavy. Found that my TMO prepared S197 has a savage satisfaction to it that leaves me with a immensely happy feeling. An besides, passing a GT4 in a S550 is not as cool as it is in a stick axle car.

After driving the S550 I went out and bought the PP 15" brembo kit right away as the brakes were the only part were I felt my Boss was behind. Obviously, if you really have to be the fastest you can be, a S550 would be the way to go.