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JDee

Ancient Racer
1,115
999
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
So up here in the (not so) great white north they mandated 5% ethanol in 2007 in Ontario, don't know about elsewhere. But that's supposedly an average, so it is alleged (on the street) that Shell and Esso put zero ethanol in their highest octane fuel, and a higher amount (10% is bandied about) in their regular and mid-grade. It is also alleged that Petro-Canada puts ethanol in their 94 octane. But who really knows? Everyone's an expert these days, except me. I know nothing for sure about fuel.....and freely admit it.

I tend to only buy the highest grade Shell/Esso for the Mustang in the possibly false belief that it is better than an ethanol containing fuel and actually does not contain any ethanol. But I really have no clue. I think with a stock motor and a conservative tune it should be fine. I certainly have not experienced any weirdness, other than from the weird tune that Ford puts in their PP2 kit, which will be gone this spring.

It's all a bit like black magic and outside of the refiners I don't think anybody really knows for sure what's going on, just tons of speculation. The only thing I know for sure is I don't know what the hell is going on.
 
3,159
2,886
Do you ever drink pure alcohol and pure water mixed together?? Most of us have. Now try that with most petroleum products. Any more questions on which is cleaner? Which pollutes more? Which produces CO2 while naturally forming again and again? I have work in corn production as well as alcohol production. And no, I do not care for the government meddling in either.
A few points from Argonne National,Labs.

This is one of the major problems with ethanol, it cannot be shipped through the safety of a pipeline, and must go rail/road. Which, creates headaches for people like me. It also creates added cost for production because of it. I'm not an expert on ethanol (except when it's burning) but it seems to me ethanol is at it's best, economically, when it's used as close to it's production base as possible, such as on or near farms. And while I'm no fan of the decrease in mileage that ethanol creates, I will say that I am a fan of the fact that at 10%, it's 10% of oil that we don't have to import from people who hate America and want to kill every one of us.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
5,795
2,789
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Ironically, the problems you mention are because alcohol is relatively pure and burns clean.
Now if you make the alcohol from a Kansas red wheat, milled just before putting it in a mashtun, cook of slowly with a few choice enzymes, mix it with quality yeasts and let it perk a few days. Then distill it to flavor....it’s pure magic. You can ask Bill and Tyme about the purity. They both have made the sacrifice for quality assurance purposes of course. Lol.
 

TymeSlayer

Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...
3,585
2,382
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
Brighton, Colorado
Ironically, the problems you mention are because alcohol is relatively pure and burns clean.
Now if you make the alcohol from a Kansas red wheat, milled just before putting it in a mashtun, cook of slowly with a few choice enzymes, mix it with quality yeasts and let it perk a few days. Then distill it to flavor....it’s pure magic. You can ask Bill and Tyme about the purity. They both have made the sacrifice for quality assurance purposes of course. Lol.

Quality assurance indeed! Plus it doesn't produce methane like it's cousin of malted barley converted into ethanol and carbon dioxide and yeast.
 
This is one of the major problems with ethanol, it cannot be shipped through the safety of a pipeline, and must go rail/road. Which, creates headaches for people like me. It also creates added cost for production because of it. I'm not an expert on ethanol (except when it's burning) but it seems to me ethanol is at it's best, economically, when it's used as close to it's production base as possible, such as on or near farms. And while I'm no fan of the decrease in mileage that ethanol creates, I will say that I am a fan of the fact that at 10%, it's 10% of oil that we don't have to import from people who hate America and want to kill every one of us.
Well, times have changed, and now the USA, with Canada as a almost-domestic supplier, is substantially independent of imported oil. The USA might be buying oil from abroad because it's cheaper than domestic crude, but it's not because there isn't enough domestic crude.
 
So up here in the (not so) great white north they mandated 5% ethanol in 2007 in Ontario, don't know about elsewhere. But that's supposedly an average, so it is alleged (on the street) that Shell and Esso put zero ethanol in their highest octane fuel, and a higher amount (10% is bandied about) in their regular and mid-grade. It is also alleged that Petro-Canada puts ethanol in their 94 octane. But who really knows? Everyone's an expert these days, except me. I know nothing for sure about fuel.....and freely admit it.

I tend to only buy the highest grade Shell/Esso for the Mustang in the possibly false belief that it is better than an ethanol containing fuel and actually does not contain any ethanol. But I really have no clue. I think with a stock motor and a conservative tune it should be fine. I certainly have not experienced any weirdness, other than from the weird tune that Ford puts in their PP2 kit, which will be gone this spring.

It's all a bit like black magic and outside of the refiners I don't think anybody really knows for sure what's going on, just tons of speculation. The only thing I know for sure is I don't know what the hell is going on.
Every Chevron in BC has a pump like this on every pump island - it's about 3 cents a liter more than 91, so it's a no-brainer, especially when you only have to buy gas every couple of months or so:

1614491513717.png


A few places in BC (like Oliver, the nearest town to Area 27) have Petro Can with 94, although there are no claims regarding ethanol.
 

JDee

Ancient Racer
1,115
999
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
halfway between Mosport and Shannonville
Every Chevron in BC has a pump like this on every pump island - it's about 3 cents a liter more than 91, so it's a no-brainer, especially when you only have to buy gas every couple of months or so:

View attachment 63014

A few places in BC (like Oliver, the nearest town to Area 27) have Petro Can with 94, although there are no claims regarding ethanol.

Interesting. For some unknown reason we don't have Chevron in Ontario, at least I don't recall ever seeing one. I sure would welcome one though!! It looks like Chevron gas is only available in BC and Alberta, and they have sold their retail outlets to "Parkland Fuel Corporation". So likely no expansion there in the future. $1.71 a litre is a pretty good hit though!

Here's what PetroCan's website says about ethanol:

"Yes, all of our grades of gas, including our Ultra 94 high octane fuel , contain up to 10% ethanol content. This is required by federal and provincial regulations. "

Which would imply that no matter whose gas and octane level you buy it's going to have ethanol in it. Unless PetroCan is BSing us about those "federal and provincial regulations", which of course is totally possible. It is Canada after all, where the truth is quite flexible these days.
 
Interesting. For some unknown reason we don't have Chevron in Ontario, at least I don't recall ever seeing one. I sure would welcome one though!! It looks like Chevron gas is only available in BC and Alberta, and they have sold their retail outlets to "Parkland Fuel Corporation". So likely no expansion there in the future. $1.71 a litre is a pretty good hit though!

Here's what PetroCan's website says about ethanol:

"Yes, all of our grades of gas, including our Ultra 94 high octane fuel , contain up to 10% ethanol content. This is required by federal and provincial regulations. "

Which would imply that no matter whose gas and octane level you buy it's going to have ethanol in it. Unless PetroCan is BSing us about those "federal and provincial regulations", which of course is totally possible. It is Canada after all, where the truth is quite flexible these days.
Yes, here in the BC lower mainland, we're deep in the heart of taxes. Carbon tax and a transit subsidy make the numbers big, and the uplift from regular to premium is about 30 cents now, so it's just ugly.

I think the regulations are different by province and as far as I can tell, Chevron stations in BC all have a zero-ethanol underground tank with 94 in it and a second tank with 87 E10. They blend at the pump to deliver 89 and 91. Thing is, our geography is such that there's only two sources of distillates - northern Washington or Alberta, and all the gas stations share the same feed. The two gas stations in Oliver selling 94 are probably selling the same base fuel with different additive packages. Of course the turbo track guys (Hondas, Subie's, etc) are running Chevron 94 cut about 1:1 with E100. Knock suppression, anyone?
 

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