My motor blew up......now what?

[Mad Hatter]

When were porting the old Gen1 heads (R.I.P.) we got to 335cfm at the moderate lift of the LM intake only cams. We could have gotten a little more but I remember Shaun/AED saying don't bother as it will exceed the Cobrajet intakes capacity. The heads on the engine now are Gen1 Livernois stage 2 heads with the same 335cfm @.50 lift. in any case there was no need to push for more as we were at the goal of +500 rwhp with 98 octane. With a little luck we will be going to the dyno next month with a E85 tune. That's if we can get the car together in time!! very very happy with the AED gen1/3 hybrid. My buddies car blew his engine (20 min races with nitro was not the best idea) and has just purchased a gen2 shortblock to follow the same general idea.

oops edit! gen 3 shortblock, not a gen 2 on the buddies car. the extra point on compression is worth it.

 

[docs302]

If it was a 70° day you would have easily gotten over 500hp.

Yeah that's true. Just wanted to see that magic number on the dyno sheet lol

 

[docs302]

@Mad Hatter and I both have the FP cai and are both over 500 whp so I’d be surprised if that was the case. Like @Coz said, a cool day could be enough to make the difference. Regardless, that’s still great power for a 5 liter.

For just the L&M cams, stock heads and the intake with headers, I should be happy and I am. I do have the electric water pump and now with the multi-pass radiator we are hoping it's not too much for the pump to handle. I am only doing short stints so I am not anticipating any issues. I now have gauges so I can monitor what's going on instead of guessing.

 

[Fabman]

For just the L&M cams, stock heads and the intake with headers, I should be happy and I am. I do have the electric water pump and now with the multi-pass radiator we are hoping it's not too much for the pump to handle. I am only doing short stints so I am not anticipating any issues. I now have gauges so I can monitor what's going on instead of guessing.

the pump will be fine.

 

[honeybadger]

Well, after almost two years I finally have a running car back in the garage. Adam at Revolution Automotive tuned it for 100 octane and E85. I was a bit disappointed with the dyno results but I'm not competing so it will still be a great track day and HPDE car.
The 100 octane tune only made 4HP more than the original motor but with the larger Gen3 block and ported CJ manifold, I expected more. I really thought the E85 was going to make more than 500HP but Adam said the FP CAI was restrictive. A larger CAI will likely get me over 500 but it doesn't really matter. We cut power at 7800 as the curve was flat at that point.

View attachment 87758

I'm surprised this is with the ported CJ. Do you think the port was worth it? Or would you just go with a CJ? What intake did you use before? Do you happen to have a dyno sheet of that too? Curious about the curve differences

 

[Fabman]

I'm surprised this is with the ported CJ. Do you think the port was worth it? Or would you just go with a CJ? What intake did you use before? Do you happen to have a dyno sheet of that too? Curious about the curve differences

I wonder who ported the CJ....could be a big difference between and really good vs a really bad port job.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Generally speaking the CJ manifold looks very primitive inside. I would say porting it is a must! Its full of horrible gaps and misaligned moldings etc. Looks really bad inside compared to a 2018+ manifold, does not look like a regular production part. Always thought that might be the reason for some of inconsistent numbers the CJ gets.

 

[Mad Hatter]

@docs302, which throttlebody did you use? The twin 67mm??

 

[docs302]

I'm surprised this is with the ported CJ. Do you think the port was worth it? Or would you just go with a CJ? What intake did you use before? Do you happen to have a dyno sheet of that too? Curious about the curve differences

Adam installed the cams, electric WP and stock CJ with the 100 octane race gas tune a few years ago and it made 475. That's why I thought the new Gen 3 block and port would make more than 4hp. Would I do the porting again for 4HP? I don't think so. It was less than $400 so not a huge cost but I was expecting/hoping for 10HP. The E85 gave me a fair bump and at only $3.65/gallon vs. $15.00 and the cooling it will also bring, it's a no-brainer for me.

 

[docs302]

@docs302, which throttlebody did you use? The twin 67mm??

Yes, same a before.

 

[docs302]

Generally speaking the CJ manifold looks very primitive inside

That is definitely true!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Yes, I think the term "Fixing" is more applicable then "Porting" for the CJ.

 

[docs302]

First time out on track yesterday for an easy TNiA session and the new power plant overheats in two laps. It was only in the high 70's I believe. My stock motor with the stock radiator, Setrab 925 cooler hung in front with Mach1's bracket, electric WP, coolant and open grille never gave me any issues.

This current set up is a large 948 cooler hung up high with the same bracket and a 3-pass Fluidyne running plain water, same electric water pump but with the stock Boss grille and added protective wire mesh backing. I also left the fog light covers on. I poured about 32oz of a high performance coolant into the catch tank and that filled it.

I let the car idle today for 20 min and water temp remained between 170-180. I noticed the oil pressure was only around 20-25 at idle yesterday after returning to the paddock but today it was 40-45. It spikes to the gauge max of 100 when I rev.

I have attached a pic of the current grille and previous. I'm thinking it has to be air flow? Is the Setrab covering too much of the radiator? I noticed a good portion of the upper radiator is visible above the frame and blocked by a wire harness which seems a waste and dangerous to the wire and plastic because that metal was hot.

Thoughts?

 

[302BOB]

That's somethin I hope and PRAY I NEVER have to deal with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............keep my Mother spared all tho she's been gone way before I got the Boss....................

 

[Fabman]

First time out on track yesterday for an easy TNiA session and the new power plant overheats in two laps. It was only in the high 70's I believe. My stock motor with the stock radiator, Setrab 925 cooler hung in front with Mach1's bracket, electric WP, coolant and open grille never gave me any issues.

This current set up is a large 948 cooler hung up high with the same bracket and a 3-pass Fluidyne running plain water, same electric water pump but with the stock Boss grille and added protective wire mesh backing. I also left the fog light covers on. I poured about 32oz of a high performance coolant into the catch tank and that filled it.

I let the car idle today for 20 min and water temp remained between 170-180. I noticed the oil pressure was only around 20-25 at idle yesterday after returning to the paddock but today it was 40-45. It spikes to the gauge max of 100 when I rev.

I have attached a pic of the current grille and previous. I'm thinking it has to be air flow? Is the Setrab covering too much of the radiator? I noticed a good portion of the upper radiator is visible above the frame and blocked by a wire harness which seems a waste and dangerous to the wire and plastic because that metal was hot.

Thoughts?

View attachment 88234

View attachment 88235

View attachment 88236

I hung mine down low and left the top/sides open to air...it may be that it is blocking too much air and it going around the oil cooler/rad stack. Have you tried ducting it?

 

[Mad Hatter]

I had a similar problem with my engines. In our case, @Fabman pointed out that I was using the wrong Ford Racing filter relocation plate with AN10 fittings. Oil pressure was reading lower then normal and car would over heat after a few laps. Put in a proper unit and changed the fittings and lines to AN12. Pressure went up and temps went down right away. Your problem is probably something else but just in case!!

 

[docs302]

If I had the ability to fabricate my own ducting and mounts I would definitely think about that. The cost of the Watson ducting is crazy. I can't do what you did there. If there is a nice and easy bolt-in mount I can use to lower the cooler I would do it. I also have a large gap between the cooler and radiator.

 

[docs302]

I had a similar problem with my engines. In our case, @Fabman pointed out that I was using the wrong Ford Racing filter relocation plate with AN10 fittings. Oil pressure was reading lower then normal and car would over heat after a few laps. Put in a proper unit and changed the fittings and lines to AN12. Pressure went up and temps went down right away. Your problem is probably something else but just in case!!

I'm using a Mishimoto sandwich plate and Motorcraft FL-500S filter same as before but without the stock Boss cooler. I run AN10 lines as before.

I'm going to check in with Adam at Rev and see what he has to say.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Am pretty sure that @Fabman sent me a Ford memo saying DO NOT RUN AN10 ON A COYOTE.. I blame that for at least two dead engines. Let me see if I can find it. The change to AN12 was eye opening!!

 

[Fabman]

If I had the ability to fabricate my own ducting and mounts I would definitely think about that. The cost of the Watson ducting is crazy. I can't do what you did there. If there is a nice and easy bolt-in mount I can use to lower the cooler I would do it. I also have a large gap between the cooler and radiator.

I don't see it on the site...?