Odyssey battery questions (or other light batteries)

Discussion in 'Drivetrain, Exhaust and Electrical' started by Duane Black, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Have to wait till the engine is back in the Boss! Still waiting for the parts to clear customs!
     
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  2. TMSBOSS

    TMSBOSS TMO Addict

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    Yep, and Much appreciated!

    No rush.

    Well aware of customs challenges.
     
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  3. TymeSlayer

    TymeSlayer Tramps like us, Baby we were born to run...

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    Very interested in this set-up for the pump and cooler for the tranny.

     
  4. Duane Black

    Duane Black TMO Advanced

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    So is this battery swap a logical mod at all for someone who dailys a car too?
     
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  5. Fabman

    Fabman Project: "Frankenstang"

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    Just installed this on Sunday...WOW what an upgrade.

    61X1FAiDMmL._SL1000_.jpg
    I had a Shori lightweight battery but it just didn't have enough poop.
    Don't know yet how long this will last but so far it's been awesome!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  6. Duane Black

    Duane Black TMO Advanced

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    I see it’s only 5 lbs. wow!
     
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  7. Bill Pemberton

    Bill Pemberton TMO Addict

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    Any issues with jump starting it , though?
     
  8. Fabman

    Fabman Project: "Frankenstang"

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    Not that I am aware of.....the shori battery I had before was ok with it. It just didn’t have enough CCA to do the job in the cold.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. thehueypilot

    thehueypilot TMO Advanced

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    I like the Odyssey batteries for long life and no free acid. These batteries were developed first for military applications and spread into the civilian market. They are pricey but if you have ever kept a car long term you will see a lot of rust develop around the battery tray from the free acid filled battery. I have these in all my hobby cars with 10 plus years of staying power. The part number below is supposed to fit a 96R BCI battery group which fits the Boss. Note: the price I got was $247 from the manufacture but Summit will match it. I had to modify the nylon hold down strap by adding a new hole with a hot soldering iron tip and added (epoxied) delrin blocks to the left and right battery tray stops. I epoxied them on and painted them black with spray paint for plastic. The insulation for the stock battery is a little big on this smaller battery but it should still insulate the battery from direct heat. I did not compare the weights but this battery is slightly smaller in size as you can tell by the insulation.

    http://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/ody-pc1200mjt
    http://www.batteryweb.com/bci.cfm
    http://www.odysseybattery.com/battery_search.aspx

    Tim
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  10. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Not according to my testing. At least once ALL the various computers are in a 'rest' state. I think locking the car might get to the 'rest' state a bit faster, but alo uses a bit of juice just to work the power lock solenoids. But if you keep going in and out of the car in the paddock, the computers lights, etc, all cycle on and off...that stuff doesn't help.
     
  11. Fabman

    Fabman Project: "Frankenstang"

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    This is the Shori Battery I had.
    It's 540 CCA and I believe the stock battery had 625 CCA?
    It was adequate in most circumstances but early on a track day morning after the car was sitting in the trailer overnight it may or may not start my car without a jump.
    I'm certainly no battery expert but my advice to anyone would be to get more than enough Cold Cranking Amps. 1005x_lfx36l3-bs12_Shorai_Lithium_Battery.jpg
     
  12. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Don't put a Li-Ion battery in a daily driver. Or anything for that matter if it's not going to be regularly checked or maintained properly.

    We've had a fair number of dead ones here just on TMO. User error mostly, but it's easy to do, and they almost never recover from a deep discharge. I don't recall any fires here, but they're not uncommon if you look for examples online.

    The OEM charging system is not made for charging Li-Ion batteries properly or safely. And that's not just an opinion.
     
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  13. Duane Black

    Duane Black TMO Advanced

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    So is that 17 lbs Braile the better choice? What exactly is the difference? I an realizing quickly how uneducated I am on batteries.

    Are any of these lighter batteries good for a driver? Should I just forget it and move on with Interstate Batteries, hook em up and forget them?
     
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  14. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Let me go over two main differences: Battery chemistry/type and Capacity.

    There are lots of types available today, dividing them into to main groups would be Lead Acid (still many types of those) and I'd call the Other chemistries like Li-Ion, LiFePo4, etc. Lead Acid can be mostly divided into Flooded (like OEM), AGM (like many aftermarket), and some other sealed, non-flooded types like Gel.

    The OEM system is made to handle a '6 cell' Lead Acid battery. It will work with any of them. Other chemistries use various cell and different voltage arrangements as a work around to fit a lighter battery. The charging system may or may not safely charge other chemistries. Generally, they do not or can't. They should at the very least be maintained by the proper external charger. Preferably, IMO, out of the car or disconnected.

    Any of those types have various capacities measured in Amp-hours (Ah) sometimes expressed as the 'reserve capacity'. This is like a fuel tank 'size' and shows the usable energy stored. Cranking Amps and Cold (CCA) are a measure of how much of that energy can be 'dumped'/used as a rate, like the 'flow' of fuel. These are properties of every battery that are somewhat unrelated to the chemistry or type. You can find any of them with 500 CA/CCA and 30 Ah capacity. They'll just be different sizes and weights based on the chemistry or type.

    Our cars 'only' need about 400 CA or CCA to turn over the engine. Maybe even less. But capacities determine how many times you can do that in a row. And the higher percentage of discharge generally determines how long a battery will last.

    How someone should choose, would depend on their individual use, budget, and requirements and willingness to check or maintain.

    So I can't tell you that a 17 lb Braille is 'better' than a 15 lb Braille or an OEM 31lb. So far, the 15 lb. works for me and JDee, but was too small for Mad Hatter. And as you noticed, JDee and I have very different maintenance regimens. There isn't just one answer.

    Then it's good you asked! :)

    I think they're good. But I would only suggest getting one if you understand their limitations or what you need to do to keep it reliable or from getting too deeply discharged. I think it was worth it to shed ~17 lbs. each, and my maintenance regimen is actually simpler with sealed AGM over the OEM flooded batteries. I would check the both with hydrometers every year and top off electrolyte every six months. Now I don't have to do that.

    If the weight savings don't matter much to you, then a 'full size' AGM or even an OEM style flooded battery might make more sense.

    I hope that helps!
     
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  15. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Gotta go Faster

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    Just to add to what Grant said... I got the 17pound Braile before I found a goofy wiring problem that was killing my batteries. I would be happy with the 15 pounder now that my circuit is back to normal.
     
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  16. thehueypilot

    thehueypilot TMO Advanced

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    The Odyssey brand batteries are considered "dry cell" batteries which means they have no free acid or gel.

    Tim
     
  17. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    That's just their marketing speak. It's sealed lead acid AGM. The Braille lead acid are like that too. They can be mounted flat, upside down, etc. Both are flat plate designs, not spiral like Optimas.

    If you don't believe me:
    http://www.odysseybattery.com/Batteries/DesignAdvantages


    EDIT:
    To expand on the Odyssey batteries a bit:

    The PC1200MJT is built like a tank for our application. Better than OEM in all performance aspects aside from weight. I have zero doubt that I could make one of these last more than 10 years. Downside is that it is listed as 38.2 lbs! Great for a daily driver, just a bit heavy.

    A lot of people run their smaller PC680 for the track. Very similar in specs to the Braille B2015.

    Either are good choices IMO, depending on the intended use.
     
  18. thehueypilot

    thehueypilot TMO Advanced

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    I guess it confused me when they state:
    • Totally maintenance free
    • No need to add water, ever! Drycell design with resealable venting system.
    upload_2019-2-6_9-59-33.png
    Tim
     
  19. Grant 302

    Grant 302 OPM Spent: $587,402 Moderator

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    Sadly, that's exactly what 'marketing speak' is for.
     
  20. Duane Black

    Duane Black TMO Advanced

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    So a lithium ion can be problematix with OEM alternators, but AGM batteries like the 15-17 lbs Braile works by basically hooking it up to the positive/negative posts as you would anything else?

    Then for maintenance/awareness - dont let things charge too long, minimuze short trips, watch cold weather (call the garage on fridgit nights) and dont let it sit for more than a couple days without disconnecting the ground cable. At least, thats the case for the 15-17 lbs Braile.

    The Lithium Ion apparently needs a tender to properly maintain and is a legit racecar decision, whereas a Braile can be a “careful, but streetable” option.

    Am I missing anything big?
     
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