Question for Cloud9

[ricksboss302]

Gary,
Rick from class at MMP. How did new grill work? Do you know if the Boss' we drove had the LS shocks and struts? Do you have the Pedestal wing on your car and if so is it the Ford part#AR3Z-6344210-CA? 8)

 

[cloud9]

Hi Rick. Good to see you at BMO! Yep that's the correct part # for the LS wing. Opening up the grille helps with cooling. The more airflow the better. Removing it all together provides the most cooling. How much is adequate is going to depend on the conditions and individual driving style.

I'm not sure if they changed the shocks and struts on the Track Attack cars. You should pose that question to Bry @ MMP over on the Track Attack thread.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I did ask that question and the Bosses had factory spring, sway bar, shock and strut setup. The did have the LS wing, trans cooler, brake ducts and splitter but that is it as far as I remember. All car had the revised grille, oil cooler was remounted, roll cage and belt setup. All ran the same brake and tire setup but the wheels were stock for the LS or Boss.

 

[VoodooBoss]

We have some conflicting info on the shocks, springs, and sway bars. I heard it both ways and kept asking people. At the end of the day I popped the trunk and was showing Ken how to mount the LS wing. A tech walked up to as and asked if we had any questions. He explained that he and another guy installed all the mods on the MMP Bosses. I asked him if they had the stock suspension and he said no they were all upgraded with LS suspension and that he installed the parts himself. I haven't driven my car on a track yet but to me they didn't feel much different and what difference I did notice I thought it was because the shocks were set on firmer settings.

Gary or Scott, did the suspension feel any different than your car on the track?

 

[VoodooBoss]

I did ask that question and the Bosses had factory spring, sway bar, shock and strut setup. The did have the LS wing, trans cooler, brake ducts and splitter but that is it as far as I remember. All car had the revised grille, oil cooler was remounted, roll cage and belt setup. All ran the same brake and tire setup but the wheels were stock for the LS or Boss.

They used PFC brake pads, Michelin PS2 tires, and I assume DOT 4 brake fluid. There was one white Boss that had the 302S wheels on it but it was not used during our class.

 

[2012YellowBoss]

I don't know that I am good enough to have felt a big difference in ride. I feel the difference in changing the rears from 5 to 4 in the way the car exits the corners, less over steer. You can feel a little difference on the street while going over bumps but it is not that great. I felt a bigger change in my 87 T-Bird with the firm ride setting. Plus that track was way different then I am use to, the tracks here are longer and faster then the setup they had us on at Miller. Gary may have felt something different but I could not.

The guys I spoke to told me that the shock-strut set up was not changed in any case, like you said depends on who you spoke to

 

[VoodooBoss]

The cars didn't feel much different to me either. The MMP mod list that Bryan originally posted did not include LS suspension components. I'm still skeptical they have the LS suspension installed.

OTOH none of the reviews from the Boss media event at Laguna Seca in February said the LS felt much different than the Boss on the track. Maybe pro's can feel the difference but I doubt a beginner like me can. I still think the biggest difference is the R compound tires which none of the MMP Boss cars have.

 

[JScheier]

As far as I know, the LS and Boss share the same shocks, but have different spring rates to compensate for tire compound / size differences as well as the added aero effects of the splitter and wing. Maybe they just swapped springs?

The rates aren't all that much different... so you most likely wouldn't notice the difference unless you really did back-to-back runs.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I'm pretty sure the LS shocks have stiffer dampening. Something to the effect that the 5 position on a Boss is equal to a 2 position on a LS.

 

[JScheier]

I'm pretty sure the LS shocks have stiffer dampening. Something to the effect that the 5 position on a Boss is equal to a 2 position on a LS.

I found the supplements, and while it does mention using different shock settings, I think a lot of that is due to the different spring rates, sway bar sizes and tire compounds / sizes.

Of course, can't find part numbers for the Tokico's on FRPP's site... that would take any of the guesswork away

 

[BossJockey]

There have been a few changes to the MMP Track Attack cars sense you guys went. All the Boss now are wearing LS rims with black accent color. They all have two piece front rotors.

 

[VoodooBoss]

There have been a few changes to the MMP Track Attack cars sense you guys went. All the Boss now are wearing LS rims with black accent color. They all have two piece front rotors.

Did you find out which rotors they are using and why they changed? Also were you able to confirm if all they cars have LS shocks and springs?

 

[cloud9]

Looks familiar ;D

Rick I'm guessing the 2-piece rotors might be a safety consideration. I've heard of one piece rotors cracking around the rotor hat catastrophically failing. I haven't heard of a 2-piece cracking that way although maybe it's possible. The rotor hats on 2-piece are typically aluminum and I believe dissipate the heat better.

Maybe one of the engineers could weigh in with the reason.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Looks familiar ;D

Rick I'm guessing the 2-piece rotors might be a safety consideration. I've heard of one piece rotors cracking around the rotor hat catastrophically failing. I haven't heard of a 2-piece cracking that way although maybe it's possible. The rotor hats on 2-piece are typically aluminum and I believe dissipate the heat better.

Maybe one of the engineers could weigh in with the reason.

Are those DBA 5000's? Understood but it would be nice to find out if they had any failures on the stock rotors.

 

[cloud9]

They are not DBAs. They run their slots in the opposite direction.

 

[908ssp]

Those look like Girodisc rotors.

 

[Boss_302]

Looks familiar ;D

Rick I'm guessing the 2-piece rotors might be a safety consideration. I've heard of one piece rotors cracking around the rotor hat catastrophically failing. I haven't heard of a 2-piece cracking that way although maybe it's possible. The rotor hats on 2-piece are typically aluminum and I believe dissipate the heat better.

Maybe one of the engineers could weigh in with the reason.

I’m not an engineer and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night………..so in no particular order;

- They don’t “cone” something to do with the uneven heat of the rotor

- Aluminum hats conduct less heat to the bearings

- Two piece rotors also generally have “directional” veins inside of the rotor that helps in cooling

- You also want to look for a true full sliding designs (Floating) this allows the disc to expand and contract freely without stressing the hat. This helps prevent the disc from warping or cracking.

- Another benefit is unsprung mass by reducing unsprung weight (wheels and tires, brakes) this reduces rotational inertia and has the dual effect of improving both acceleration and suspension dynamics.

But if you really want to read up on this I’m recommending this tread over on corner-carvers Floating Rotor Tech http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42896&highlight=piece+rotors

and this one Serious Rotor Issue http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3144&highlight=piece+rotors

Hope this gives you some answers...............

 

[Dean#4AI]

They are not DBAs. They run their slots in the opposite direction.

The 302S comes with 2 pc rotors but don't remember what the hats looked like.

 

[BossJockey]

There have been a few changes to the MMP Track Attack cars sense you guys went. All the Boss now are wearing LS rims with black accent color. They all have two piece front rotors.

Did you find out which rotors they are using and why they changed? Also were you able to confirm if all they cars have LS shocks and springs?

OK this is what I was told by a "tech" that was helping clean the cars after class. He said they were having a problem with over heating the brakes. He said, the rotors, calipers and lines are a Brembo brake kit from Ford Racing (the one on the FR500S? maybe). When I asked what else they have changed, he didn't mention anything about shocks or springs, just the other stuff we already knew about.

I wasn't able to get a confirmation on the brake pad compound they are using. :

 

[Jza1736]

There have been a few changes to the MMP Track Attack cars sense you guys went. All the Boss now are wearing LS rims with black accent color. They all have two piece front rotors.

Did you find out which rotors they are using and why they changed? Also were you able to confirm if all they cars have LS shocks and springs?

Just left Miller and they said they tweaked the suspension but nobody knew for sure as to what. Also the brakes are a two piece rotor with floating calipers and an aluminum (i think he said) hat from ford racing.