Removing the Stock Oil Cooler, what is needed?

[HackBoss2901]

What area of the country do you live in? Looks like you have done it all. Ever had the car over heat? This seems to be a tricky problem with the Boss.
Vorshlag will be coming out with their version of a oil cooler in the near future as the S550 will have the same oil heater on it. Interestingly their GT had little or no over heating till they installed the Boss oil cooler. Check out their forums on this.

The Vorshlag GT has 3:31 gearing. I've ran with Terry at Eagles Canyon a couple times. Each time the Boss was overheating while the Vorshlag GT was not. It’s my understanding Terry rarely runs the GT past 6500rpm as power fails off quickly at that point. As mentioned earlier a 6500rpm shift point has cured (band aid) my oil temp problem.

 

[06mach1]

Looking at some of the more recent post it seems there is discussion to mount the cooler in a similar fashion as the original B9 oil cooler with the inlet at the bottom and the outlet at the top of the cooler. It seems to me this would eliminate any air pocket question.

I would agree about hanging the cooler on end, it would get all the air out for sure. The only issue I can see from hanging it on its "end" would be that more of the cooler would be behind the bumper. Instead of having 16" of the 934 cooler in the upper grille opening (if mounted on its "side"), you will have less than 10" (due to the brackets) of the 934 cooler in the grille opening. The rest will sit behind the bumper. Granted, It will still flow air due to the fan, but I don't think it will flow air as good as a cooler mounted on it's side? I have a 934 cooler showing up today. I will mock it up both ways on my brackets just to see.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

The Vorshlag GT has 3:31 gearing. I've ran with Terry at Eagles Canyon a couple times. Each time the Boss was overheating while the Vorshlag GT was not. It’s my understanding Terry rarely runs the GT past 6500rpm as power fails off quickly at that point. As mentioned earlier a 6500rpm shift point has cured (band aid) my oil temp problem.

I'm not sure of your driving style but some things about how the BOSS behaves on-track:
1) Get a dyno sheet for your car so you can see where the power tapers off--and shift there. Use extra RPM only as-needed to avoid shifting prior to brake zones.
2) With the stock gearing, you can get a lot of grunt out of higher gears in low-speed corners. I try to run in as high a gear I can while keeping the engine in its working range at the lowest speed point of the corner.

For example, I run 3rd gear in many of the low-speed corners here (35-40mph), and the car can pull out of it very well. As long as you keep the engine above 3000 RPM (3500 preferable) it will work well. Going down to 2nd gear in these corners seems racier because the engine gets all spun up and it revs like hell coming out of the corner, but then you are fighting for traction as well as wasting time making an extra upshift. If you keep third, you get what I like to call "poor man's traction control"--since the engine is just at the start of it's power band at 3000 RPM, you can get on the throttle sooner, and by the time the car is pointed towards the exit, the engine has picked up some revs and will pull hard when you can go to WOT. You just saved time by avoiding a 2-3 upshift, and now your oil temps are a little cooler since you also avoided that high-rpm zing down to 2nd gear as well as the associated high-RPM corner exit, and you won't be blowing the tires away fighting for traction.

Just my $0.02

 

[steveespo]

I'm not sure of your driving style but some things about how the BOSS behaves on-track:
1) Get a dyno sheet for your car so you can see where the power tapers off--and shift there. Use extra RPM only as-needed to avoid shifting prior to brake zones.
2) With the stock gearing, you can get a lot of grunt out of higher gears in low-speed corners. I try to run in as high a gear I can while keeping the engine in its working range at the lowest speed point of the corner.

For example, I run 3rd gear in many of the low-speed corners here (35-40mph), and the car can pull out of it very well. As long as you keep the engine above 3000 RPM (3500 preferable) it will work well. Going down to 2nd gear in these corners seems racier because the engine gets all spun up and it revs like hell coming out of the corner, but then you are fighting for traction as well as wasting time making an extra upshift. If you keep third, you get what I like to call "poor man's traction control"--since the engine is just at the start of it's power band at 3000 RPM, you can get on the throttle sooner, and by the time the car is pointed towards the exit, the engine has picked up some revs and will pull hard when you can go to WOT. You just saved time by avoiding a 2-3 upshift, and now your oil temps are a little cooler since you also avoided that high-rpm zing down to 2nd gear as well as the associated high-RPM corner exit, and you won't be blowing the tires away fighting for traction.

Just my $0.02

This good advice from a multi race winning owner/driver. Thanks Drew.

 

[modernbeat]

I think there are multiple issues causing more heat on the Boss than the GT. As mentioned already, over revving the engine beyond what's necessary is one cause. The "oil heater" is another. And I have not finished testing it, but the transmission air scoop may be another.

The first is solved by changing the final drive and tailoring your driving and shifting to make good use of the engine's power, as Drew wrote. For the more prepared racers, you would change the final drive based on each track.
We aren't that prepared ;D

The second is solved by removing the water-oil cooler and replacing it with an isolated oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator, but spaced off of it as much as possible. Do not stack them up against each other.

Here's one we did that clears the stock grill and uses existing holes and fasteners.



The third is solved by ditching the scoop. If you are worried about transmission temps, add a pump and a cooler. But the scoop creates and extra high pressure area in the radiator cooling air evacuation area. I suspect that it restricts flow through the radiator by not allowing the cooling air to escape the engine compartment though the trans tunnel.

 

[steveespo]

Jason
Never heard the trans scoop airflow issue. Mark Wilson of Ford Racing told me that it really did help lower trans temps on track but never mentioned interrupting radiator airflow.
I have a trans temp gauge setup so I will try some alternate tests with and without the scoop to see how the water, oil and trans temps are affected. Now I have to remember where I put the plain pencil brace.........
Steve

 

[cloud9]

Some of us just have hotter cars :-\

I'm in that camp, but altitude also matters. There's a significantly bigger cooling issue at elevations above sea level. I'm between 1,100 ft and 2,000 ft most of the time and the guys at 4-5,000 have it even worse.

 

[cloud9]

I'm not sure of your driving style but some things about how the BOSS behaves on-track:
1) Get a dyno sheet for your car so you can see where the power tapers off--and shift there. Use extra RPM only as-needed to avoid shifting prior to brake zones.
2) With the stock gearing, you can get a lot of grunt out of higher gears in low-speed corners. I try to run in as high a gear I can while keeping the engine in its working range at the lowest speed point of the corner.

For example, I run 3rd gear in many of the low-speed corners here (35-40mph), and the car can pull out of it very well. As long as you keep the engine above 3000 RPM (3500 preferable) it will work well. Going down to 2nd gear in these corners seems racier because the engine gets all spun up and it revs like hell coming out of the corner, but then you are fighting for traction as well as wasting time making an extra upshift. If you keep third, you get what I like to call "poor man's traction control"--since the engine is just at the start of it's power band at 3000 RPM, you can get on the throttle sooner, and by the time the car is pointed towards the exit, the engine has picked up some revs and will pull hard when you can go to WOT. You just saved time by avoiding a 2-3 upshift, and now your oil temps are a little cooler since you also avoided that high-rpm zing down to 2nd gear as well as the associated high-RPM corner exit, and you won't be blowing the tires away fighting for traction.

Just my $0.02

Good advice Drew. I find very little value going into 2nd gear, even on the hairpins coming into the front straights. You can also build RPM by rolling into the throttle sooner on exit without breaking the rear wheels loose.

 

[cloud9]

I would think that using the 934 cooler with the factory cooler would be overkill. Ford Racings cooler kit comes with the 915 cooler and I have not heard that their cooler setup does not work. If I keep my factory water/oil cooler, I will be using the 625 cooler. I don't want to cool the oil too much. As said before, I run 260-265 oil temps measured after the factory cooler. If blackboss is running 270 before the 934 cooler, what is he running after the cooler? 240 ish? I would think the 934 cooler has got to take 30 degrees out of the temp. Would be nice to know how much the 934 is lowering the oil temps. So what is the minimum oil temp that should be run? 240?

I started experiencing the cooling issue right after delivery back in March 2011. The biggest issue for me has been keeping the water cool, but after installing the billet grille, that's the best fix I've found for the water. Oil has been solved since installing the FRPP air-to-oil kit in series with the factory water-to-oil cooler. It keeps me in the 240-245* oil range at ambients up to 90*.

 

[Black Boss]

I'm in that camp, but altitude also matters. There's a significantly bigger cooling issue at elevations above sea level. I'm between 1,100 ft and 2,000 ft most of the time and the guys at 4-5,000 have it even worse.

Yes - lucky I'm close to sea level, hate to think what temps I'd see at 5,000 ft!

I started experiencing the cooling issue right after delivery back in March 2011. The biggest issue for me has been keeping the water cool, but after installing the billet grille, that's the best fix I've found for the water. Oil has been solved since installing the FRPP air-to-oil kit in series with the factory water-to-oil cooler. It keeps me in the 240-245* oil range at ambients up to 90*.

Are you running water wetter or OE coolant?

Testing last season the difference between the 302S grille and no grille was about 3* with OE coolant.

 

[cloud9]

Are you running water wetter or OE coolant?

Testing last season the difference between the 302S grille and no grille was about 3* with OE coolant.

I'm running Water Wetter and OE coolant. I've tried water and water wetter with about 10% coolant in my GT500 and didn't see significantly lower temps than 50/50 coolant so I'm not sure how much it really helps. I'm also paranoid about corrosion running straight water and Water Wetter even though they claim it's anti-corrosive.

I'm surprised you saw such a small difference between the 302S grille and no grille. You must have really opened it up with your modifications. I saw 15-20* difference between the 302S grille and no grille/billet grille.

 

[HackBoss2901]

I'm not sure of your driving style but some things about how the BOSS behaves on-track:
1) Get a dyno sheet for your car so you can see where the power tapers off--and shift there. Use extra RPM only as-needed to avoid shifting prior to brake zones.
2) With the stock gearing, you can get a lot of grunt out of higher gears in low-speed corners. I try to run in as high a gear I can while keeping the engine in its working range at the lowest speed point of the corner.

For example, I run 3rd gear in many of the low-speed corners here (35-40mph), and the car can pull out of it very well. As long as you keep the engine above 3000 RPM (3500 preferable) it will work well. Going down to 2nd gear in these corners seems racier because the engine gets all spun up and it revs like hell coming out of the corner, but then you are fighting for traction as well as wasting time making an extra upshift. If you keep third, you get what I like to call "poor man's traction control"--since the engine is just at the start of it's power band at 3000 RPM, you can get on the throttle sooner, and by the time the car is pointed towards the exit, the engine has picked up some revs and will pull hard when you can go to WOT. You just saved time by avoiding a 2-3 upshift, and now your oil temps are a little cooler since you also avoided that high-rpm zing down to 2nd gear as well as the associated high-RPM corner exit, and you won't be blowing the tires away fighting for traction.

Just my $0.02

Thanks Drew. I agree very sound advice.

Just to clarify I'm not one to zing the engine to redline just because, most of the corner speeds at ECR are 45 to 55 range on oem tires and I use 3rd gear exclusively on corner exit . Like you said the Boss has plenty of torque for corner exit without using the lower two gears. Without changing the rear gear, shifting at 6500 seems to be the answer otherwise I'm near the limiter (7300)in 3rd twice and once (7400) in 4th. It seems upshifting would add unnecessary shifts as I'm at the braking zone. If this seem excessive by all means say so...

Stock Boss 302, no trans scoop or mods other than FR brake duct kit and PFC-01 pads

Thanks Hack

 

[VoodooBoss]

Just to be clear our Road Runner engines are designed to rev to 7,500 RPM's and met Ford's durability testing with that limit. And our engines are capable of revving even higher. I've owned a lot of other high performance vehicles including motorcycles and kart's and have revved all of them to redline on a regular basis with no issues. I don't always shift at 7,5000 on track but I rarely shift below 7,000. I have my shift light set at 7,200 RPM's and try to shift when I see the light come on but I don't always see the light in time especially in second gear. ;D My point is you're not abusing your engine by revving it to it's service limits.

 

[Grant 302]

And I have not finished testing it, but the transmission air scoop may be another.

The third is solved by ditching the scoop. If you are worried about transmission temps, add a pump and a cooler. But the scoop creates and extra high pressure area in the radiator cooling air evacuation area. I suspect that it restricts flow through the radiator by not allowing the cooling air to escape the engine compartment though the trans tunnel.

I'm interested in your test results, but I doubt that's an issue. The trans scoop cross sectional area is very small compared to the cross section of air under the car, and does not interrupt the air flow around the trans tunnel area. It really only directs a bit of air against the fins on the underside of the trans. Aero effects there will be very well localized/contained.

Great advice from Drew about when to shift. It's more obvious on a GT, but the same is true of the Boss.
Pufferfish has a thread up on SVTP about power curves and gearing here:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?968407-would-the-GT-intake-work-better-on-a-BOSS-engine-lets-find-out!&p=13558133&viewfull=1#post13558133

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Thanks Drew. I agree very sound advice.

Just to clarify I'm not one to zing the engine to redline just because, most of the corner speeds at ECR are 45 to 55 range on oem tires and I use 3rd gear exclusively on corner exit . Like you said the Boss has plenty of torque for corner exit without using the lower two gears. Without changing the rear gear, shifting at 6500 seems to be the answer otherwise I'm near the limiter (7300)in 3rd twice and once (7400) in 4th. It seems upshifting would add unnecessary shifts as I'm at the braking zone. If this seem excessive by all means say so...

Stock Boss 302, no trans scoop or mods other than FR brake duct kit and PFC-01 pads

Thanks Hack

Definitely add an air-to-oil cooler, in that case.
The FRPP one is "ready to go" but you can build the same kit for around half price, as well. Look up the thread "DIY Oil Cooler Install" for more info.

 

[Domestic Product]

I think there are multiple issues causing more heat on the Boss than the GT. As mentioned already, over revving the engine beyond what's necessary is one cause. The "oil heater" is another. And I have not finished testing it, but the transmission air scoop may be another.

The first is solved by changing the final drive and tailoring your driving and shifting to make good use of the engine's power, as Drew wrote. For the more prepared racers, you would change the final drive based on each track.
We aren't that prepared ;D

The second is solved by removing the water-oil cooler and replacing it with an isolated oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator, but spaced off of it as much as possible. Do not stack them up against each other.

Here's one we did that clears the stock grill and uses existing holes and fasteners.



The third is solved by ditching the scoop. If you are worried about transmission temps, add a pump and a cooler. But the scoop creates and extra high pressure area in the radiator cooling air evacuation area. I suspect that it restricts flow through the radiator by not allowing the cooling air to escape the engine compartment though the trans tunnel.

Jason , thanks for chiming in. Since Ford is installing the oil heaters on the S550. When can we expect a Vorshlag oil cooler for the S197 and S550. What if we drilled some holes in the trans scoop, so it works half as much?

 

[HackBoss2901]

Definitely add an air-to-oil cooler, in that case.
The FRPP one is "ready to go" but you can build the same kit for around half price, as well. Look up the thread "DIY Oil Cooler Install" for more info.

Drew working a deal on a Setrab 934 now. I will be installing a cooler before summer fun begins.

 

[boss man]

quick question on these air to oil coolers. How does the oil circulate through the cooler without a pump. I understand the engine has an oil pump to bring oil from the pan to the top of the engine and return to the pan under gravity. I also understand about convection. But what I'm having trouble with is, with no pump the oil will take the easiest path and going thru the cooler is a restriction without a pump. It just seems to me that a pump to circulate the oil would work so much better. Please set me straight on this air to oil cooler.

 

[F.D. Sako]

The common oil cooler is installed in-line of the oil filter (usually right before with a "sandwich" adapter), similar to the stock cooler. So it utilizes the stock oil pump.

Unless you install a whole new system that recircs oil from the pan, to the pan, then no additional pump is needed. That's why when installing aftermarket oil coolers, it's important to check your pressure drops, due to the coolar and additional lines.

 

[Black Boss]

Faster pace would explain some extra temp, the oil heat is all about RPM so the more speed you carry the more heat generated. That is a good problem to have 8)
My car has always run cool, so I'll see how it does next Saturday, 275 isn't the end of the world but I like it at 250 much better.
Steve

Pulled the data log for the track last weekend. It's a worst case for oil: Over the weekend 29% of laptime was at 6000+ rpm, 18% at 6500+ rpm. Lot's of sections where a shift would be just before the braking zone......

Looking at logs for last season, other tracks were in the 10-20% range for 6000+ rpm and less than 10% for 6500+........

Plus while the low temps are good for cooling, they're also good for power