Was the Boss profitable for Ford?

[Bad Pony]

HI All,

An interesting question came up at the track today, and I didn't know the answer. (A quick search of the boards didn't turn up answer but I'll apologize in advance if I'm dredging up an old topic.)

Was the Boss 302 profitable for Ford? Not from any "halo" effect the Boss may have had driving other Ford product sales, but on an actual per unit basis. Does anyone have any insight on this? Any equity analysts or others out there familiar with Ford who might know the answer?

I hope they did but it's conceivable they didn't.

The question arose when a new Camaro turned up at the track. Not even sure what flavour Camaro it was (and it had a bunch of Hennesy parts under the hood), but we started talking about the upcoming Z/28 which looks like it was designed solely to beat the Boss. To which I replied "give me a few billion in government/taxpayer dollars, and I'll build a you car that'll beat the new Porsche 918".

As an aside, I still don't know what this Camaro was capable of because its driver was inexperienced and didn't know the line or how to find it, and it was really more of a moving roadblock than a track threat.

 

[four-walling]

I have no idea whether the Boss was profitable for or not, because it seems mostly like a "labor of love" created by a few Ford employees.

At a total build of 8K or so units, I cannot believe Ford was expecting the car to be any kind of meaningful profit generator for the company.

 

[VoodooBoss]

The Boss is a halo car for Ford that brought them a lot of press in the high performance world. I don't think they made a lot of money from them but I doubt they lost any money otherwise they would never have been made. The transmission is a good example of the bean counters having an influence on the cost structure of the Boss.

 

[Fomoco302]

As an F stockholder I hope they at least broke even.

 

[four-walling]

I do not think the Corvette has ever been profitable.

There is a lot to be said for producing a " halo car" just to get peeps walking into the showroom.

 

[TMSBOSS]

There is a lot to be said for producing a " halo car" just to get peeps walking into the showroom.
[/quote]

This is the reason for the $10-20K markup on early Bosses. Keep. Them in the showroom and people stopping in to look.

As a single line item, I seriously doubt the Boss was profitable. For the brand, definitely

 

[Boss0960]

I have to believe it was profitable in Canada. Currency is nearly at par and the sticker price here was $52,000. Plus, they did not have the additional expense of Track Attack for Canadian owners.

 

[TMSBOSS]

I have to believe it was profitable in Canada. Currency is nearly at par and the sticker price here was $52,000. Plus, they did not have the additional expense of Track Attack for Canadian owners.

I believe you will find the additional mark up went to Ottawa.....not Detroit.

 

[Boss1601]

Just thinking that if it wasn't profitable it would be hard to sell a car to execs on value to the brand. Remember, the BOSS was conceived during a particularly difficult time for the industry. Furthermore, if it wasn't profitable, Ford may have curtailed such niceties like Track Attack and the owners kit.

Not completely discounting that a profit was thin, but Ford did a pretty damn good job on the car and the industry is really constrained. The stars aligned and I'm thrilled.

 

[stang13]

...Not to mention the Boss Track Attack that came along with all the goodies, including a professional photographer for each session. 8)

 

[302BOB]

Ford's goal was to bring back the Boss 302 as an actual 302 CI & their other goal was to have it beat the M3 on the track. This was more a statement of performance than a profit making scheme. I 'm just glad I was able to be part of the adventure. Thanks Ford & chief engineer Dave Pericak & everyone else involved in the effort to produce the latest ( and maybe last) Boss 302.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Ford's goal was to bring back the Boss 302 as an actual 302 CI & their other goal was to have it beat the M3 on the track. This was more a statement of performance than a profit making scheme. I 'm just glad I was able to be part of the adventure. Thanks Ford & chief engineer Dave Pericak & everyone else involved in the effort to produce the latest ( and maybe last) Boss 302.

Great statement!

 

[grantrw]

I AGREE, 302Bob, I also thank FMCo., I love my BOSS, 1359 GTHIG, supper street car, and supper track car,(novice),
Track Attack was great, 1 lesson learned
KEEP IT SMOOTH, light on the ball.
Grantrw out

 

[TymeSlayer]

Profit is measured in many ways. If you are looking at the overall cost involved with engineering, testing and manufacturing these 8000+ cars, there is no way Ford made a profit on any of these. But if looked at through a glass plate, it becomes quite evident what purpose making these beasts has done to the Mustang brand. These guys at Ford are no fools. They saw the value of building these cars as building back loyalty and the profit that loyalty will return.

 

[pufferfish]

well, I will venture away from the pack here...on speculation alone, of course...

I think they planned to have a decent profit, but ended up nearly even due to all of the warranty issues.

They started with 90% of the work already done with the 2011 GT and all the previous years of GT500. They got to focus on squeezing 30+ more hp out of an already great engine, rather than a new powerplant. They pulled from the GT500 parts bin for a good bit of the suspension and probably had Tokiko kick in free engineering for the shocks and struts. Grab a few choice items from the FRPP catalog. Change up the look a bit in the cockpit. Then, for the "special" body treatment, grabbed every body part from the 2010 GT/CS and had a sticker company come up with the C-stripe. New wheels are a non-issue for an automobile manufacturer. Brakes are 100% GT500. They threw in the track attack, knowing they would upsell on that too.

My Brembo GT with 3.73's retailed for $31,000. the boss was around $42,000, right? so, $11000 sticker price difference x 8,000 units is $88,000,000. toss out 25% for the actual parts costs (probably a high number) and you still get $66 million for engineering, procurement, management, track attack/owners package and profit. then, subtract out the warranty claims. THEN, sell all the left over boss parts to GT owners like myself!

just my pea-brained, not at all based on fact, contribution to the subject ;D

 

[cosm3os]

well, I will venture away from the pack here...on speculation alone, of course...

I think they planned to have a decent profit, but ended up nearly even due to all of the warranty issues.

They started with 90% of the work already done with the 2011 GT and all the previous years of GT500. They got to focus on squeezing 30+ more hp out of an already great engine, rather than a new powerplant. They pulled from the GT500 parts bin for a good bit of the suspension and probably had Tokiko kick in free engineering for the shocks and struts. Grab a few choice items from the FRPP catalog. Change up the look a bit in the cockpit. Then, for the "special" body treatment, grabbed every body part from the 2010 GT/CS and had a sticker company come up with the C-stripe. New wheels are a non-issue for an automobile manufacturer. Brakes are 100% GT500. They threw in the track attack, knowing they would upsell on that too.

My Brembo GT with 3.73's retailed for $31,000. the boss was around $42,000, right? so, $11000 sticker price difference x 8,000 units is $88,000,000. toss out 25% for the actual parts costs (probably a high number) and you still get $66 million for engineering, procurement, management, track attack/owners package and profit. then, subtract out the warranty claims. THEN, sell all the left over boss parts to GT owners like myself!

just my pea-brained, not at all based on fact, contribution to the subject ;D

This. Most of the car is no different than the millions of V6/GTs that were already tooled up and tested. As to it being a halo car, I don't think so. The GT was Ford's halo car. The Veyron is VWs halo car. The ZR-1 is a halo car. The Boss is a special edition of one of their biggest selling models (albeit one that backs up the name.)

Flame suit on.

 

[four-walling]

The Veyron is VWs halo car.

I'll have look for their halo car next time I am in a VW dealership.

 

[cosm3os]

Better yet, buy the Veyron and put "JST A VW" on the plates! Saw that on a Jag when Ford owned them!

 

[VoodooBoss]

I'll have look for their halo car next time I am in a VW dealership.

LMAO

The ZR1 is a regular model corvette. The Boss is a limited edition Mustang. By your definition the Boss is a halo car and the ZR1 isn't. Regardless the Boss generated a lot of bright positive press for Ford halo or no halo. The FGT was also limited production and has been out of production for half a decade before the Boss hit the showrooms. The Boss is a glorified fleet rental car so maybe it's a halo rental car? ;D

 

[Grant 302]

well, I will venture away from the pack here...on speculation alone, of course...
-snip-
just my pea-brained, not at all based on fact, contribution to the subject ;D

...but I think you have the closest approximation to the overall project cost model. I just draw slightly different conclusions.

I think they planned to have a decent profit, but ended up nearly even due to all of the warranty issues.

I don't think they'll make every penny planned for the project...but I think the warranty costs are overestimated.

They started with 90% of the work already done with the 2011 GT and all the previous years of GT500. They got to focus on squeezing 30+ more hp out of an already great engine, rather than a new powerplant. They pulled from the GT500 parts bin for a good bit of the suspension and probably had Tokiko kick in free engineering for the shocks and struts. Grab a few choice items from the FRPP catalog. Change up the look a bit in the cockpit. Then, for the "special" body treatment, grabbed every body part from the 2010 GT/CS and had a sticker company come up with the C-stripe. New wheels are a non-issue for an automobile manufacturer. Brakes are 100% GT500. They threw in the track attack, knowing they would upsell on that too.

Mostly correct, but this is where I think you were least accurate in your assessment. The GT/CS parts were known to be in production by the time the Boss (747) program was underway. The Boss splitter add-ons were likely engineered in conjunction with the GT/CS facia rather than simple parts bin raiding.

My Brembo GT with 3.73's retailed for $31,000. the boss was around $42,000, right? so, $11000 sticker price difference x 8,000 units is $88,000,000. toss out 25% for the actual parts costs (probably a high number) and you still get $66 million for engineering, procurement, management, track attack/owners package and profit. then, subtract out the warranty claims. THEN, sell all the left over boss parts to GT owners like myself!

I'd spread the difference a bit more between a base GT and Boss costs. Most of the recaro/torsen cars started at $43,575 and the invoice for a base GT is less than $30k, IIRC. Add in for the $5k premium on the LSs and that top line number for the Boss program should/might exceed $120M.

Before anybody else argues that not all Bosses sold for more than MSRP...to my knowledge that would all be from dealer hold-back, as I am not aware of any discount of the Bosses between Ford and the dealerships. Without any such discounts and sales of all new Bosses, then the only risk to the bottom line for this program would be Boss specific warranty issues. So far, I don't see those as being large costs when compared to the rest of the Mustang lineup. To my knowledge, Ford has only replaced a handful of engines and replaced some '13 stripes and some seat covers...and a few other issues discussed only on the internet, who are still the minority of total owners.

So while my assessment is just as speculative as Steve's...I predict that the Boss program is both a financial and PR success for Ford.