What did you do to your Boss 302 or S197 today?

[steveespo]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Not good news today. The Master cylinder was wet, so we replaced it. However still cannot change gear with the engine running. If the car is started in gear there's enough clutch movement to start and stop the car from a standstill, without stalling, but it will not shift. Got a scope inside the Bell Housing and the TOB appears to have good travel.

Speculation now is Transmission......

Nick
Someone in Michigan has to have an MT82. Call in some favors there are 4 race shops within 20 miles of you. I would loan you mine but Steve still has it. Sorry this hit you, seems like too many concurrent failures though. Maybe bad MC led to incomplete clutch throw which hurt both the synchros and clutch disc during gear changes. Hope you get it worked out this weekend for next.
Steve

 

[VoodooBoss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Too bad the Tremec 3160 isn't available now.

https://trackmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=9719.0

 

[cloud9]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Nick
Someone in Michigan has to have an MT82. Call in some favors there are 4 race shops within 20 miles of you. I would loan you mine but Steve still has it. Sorry this hit you, seems like too many concurrent failures though. Maybe bad MC led to incomplete clutch throw which hurt both the synchros and clutch disc during gear changes. Hope you get it worked out this weekend for next.
Steve

That's exactly what I did a couple years ago. There's got to be someone nearby to help with a new used gearbox pulled from a stock car to make a race car that you can throw in there.

 

[Black Boss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Nick
Someone in Michigan has to have an MT82. Call in some favors there are 4 race shops within 20 miles of you. I would loan you mine but Steve still has it. Sorry this hit you, seems like too many concurrent failures though. Maybe bad MC led to incomplete clutch throw which hurt both the synchros and clutch disc during gear changes. Hope you get it worked out this weekend for next.
Steve

Working on locating either a re-built MT82 or biting the bullet on the Magnum XL upgrade.

That's exactly what I did a couple years ago. There's got to be someone nearby to help with a new used gearbox pulled from a stock car to make a race car that you can throw in there.

Need to confirm it's the Tranny -- seems a lot like lack of TOB throw, especially as I managed a clutchless downshift to get back to the trailer from the top of Hogpen at VIR after the failure....

 

[steveespo]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Clutch line clogged/blocked? Don't know how but if you have new TOB/MC and clutch what else. Can you shift trans easily engine off? You have the strangest failures my friend.

 

[Black Boss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Clutch line clogged/blocked? Don't know how but if you have new TOB/MC and clutch what else. Can you shift trans easily engine off? You have the strangest failures my friend.

Yes, weird -- Trans shifts fine with Engine off. TOB was replaced after the Glen, 4 weeks ago. Clutch line was new (Stainless Ford Racing) about 2 months ago when I put the headers in and Master Cylinder was replaced yesterday. Not much left other than the Transmission..... but I'm not convinced given I could downshift without the clutch after the failure. Almost seems like a spline /clutch/TOB tolerance stack up issue, but we called Exedy, and they've never experienced that.

 

[steveespo]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

They didn't remove a spacer at the trans input shaft when changing the TOB did they? I know it's unlikely but I can't think of anything else.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

They didn't remove a spacer at the trans input shaft when changing the TOB did they? I know it's unlikely but I can't think of anything else.

Yes that's a good one. AFAIR someone had an issue where they either had the wrong size spacer, or was it they weren't supposed to use a spacer, and that caused issues.

 

[2012-Boss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Nick
Someone in Michigan has to have an MT82. Call in some favors there are 4 race shops within 20 miles of you. I would loan you mine but Steve still has it. Sorry this hit you, seems like too many concurrent failures though. Maybe bad MC led to incomplete clutch throw which hurt both the synchros and clutch disc during gear changes. Hope you get it worked out this weekend for next.
Steve

And I am still waiting on back ordered parts..... I am now just waiting on the 3-4 slider. Well, and for the car to get out of the body shop after that little incident at the Glen last month....

 

[F.D. Sako]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

And I am still waiting on back ordered parts..... I am now just waiting on the 3-4 slider. Well, and for the car to get out of the body shop after that little incident at the Glen last month....

Steve, it was sad hearing about your incident at the Glen!!
I really hope everything works out for you in a short amount of time and you get back out there with little time lost.

Are you having transmission issues as well, even after Rev Auto rebuild?

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Black Boss:

Sorry to hear of your clutch failure and your subsequent disengagement problems. In thinking about this new problem, my first thought would be to straight edge measure across the pressure plate finger throw out bearing contact point to rear engine deck, (bell housing mounting surface). This gives the PP finger contact point depth into the trans bell housing.

Next, run the straight edge across the transmission bell housing face mark the transmission input shaft. Then, using the first measurement from the pressure plate fingers, measure out from the base of the TO bearing mount on the transmission and mark the input shaft.

The distance, between the two marks on the input shaft should only be 1/8". Note: The 1/8" distance represents the standoff distance of the TO Bearing to PP fingers. This is required to prevent constant contact of the TO bearing and PP release fingers.

If the distance is greater than 1/8" then you will need an adjustable TO bearing like the ones offered by Tilton Engineering.

If this is not the case, and the distance is greater that the first PP measurement, the PP is over extended beyond the finger pivot point. Note: The Tilton adjustable TO bearing is adjustable both ways to correct this condition as well. Look here: http://tiltonracing.com/product/6000-series-hydraulic-release-bearings/

If the measurement is spot on, then you'll have to open the MT82 for inspection, and or look for a transmission upgrade option.

Hopefully, this helps, and you will find improper spacing of the OEM TO bearing to Aftermarket Twin Clutch set.

All the Best, and good luck,
Dave
302 HP

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Yes, weird -- Trans shifts fine with Engine off. TOB was replaced after the Glen, 4 weeks ago. Clutch line was new (Stainless Ford Racing) about 2 months ago when I put the headers in and Master Cylinder was replaced yesterday. Not much left other than the Transmission..... but I'm not convinced given I could downshift without the clutch after the failure. Almost seems like a spline /clutch/TOB tolerance stack up issue, but we called Exedy, and they've never experienced that.

I tested my Boss and with engine off I'm able to shift in all forward gears with or without clutch pedal depressed.

Not sure as to the extent of the MC leak, but Is it possible the leaking MC contributed to clutch plate failure due to partial PP disengagement during shifting? The failed disc does show signs of heat. I just don't see this as a hydraulic failure, but more of a clearance issue, so I agree with your tolerance stack up issue comment. Once you measure it, you'll know for sure, just hate to see you find out it's not the transmission.

I would also open up the MT82 for inspection before I ordered a replacement.

I have seen this happen before, but my gut tells me you have 1/4" to 3/8" distance. Sorry, just thinking out loud.

Keep us posted,
Dave
2HP

 

[superhero]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Is it possiable that the seal inside the TOB is dammaged. Allowing it to extend but will not hold and bleed back. Another words Blowby.

 

[Berol]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Speculation now is Transmission......

I sure hope not. For your sake, and mine. Mine is doing the same thing. Started the tear down last night.

 

[2012-Boss]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Steve, it was sad hearing about your incident at the Glen!!
I really hope everything works out for you in a short amount of time and you get back out there with little time lost.

Are you having transmission issues as well, even after Rev Auto rebuild?

Yes, the transmission failed at Watkins Glen at the end of April. Heat looks to be a definite factor. I am going to update Steve's transmission cooler thread when everything is back together. Basically, I mounted a Setrab cooler off my Blowfish tow hook mount and will put the pump where the battery normally is mounted.

 

[wwilde001]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Nick, it sounds like something is causing the clutch not to fully disengage. If you can shift the gears without the motor running, the transmission should be in the same state with the car running with the clutch fully depressed and disengaged. The only reason for you not to be able to change gears, is if the transmission input shaft was still turning at this point. This might also explain why your old clutch disc looked a little burnt. I think the 12's had the spacer plate behind the throw out and the 13's were changed to eliminate this plate. Also there are two different length slave cylinder (different part numbers). This all started when you replaced the slave cylinder...right? With a worn clutch, the new slave might have been able to release the clutch enough for it to operate. With the new clutch, the throw might not be enough to disengage. IMO it looks like something isn't right with the slave cylinder. Let us know what you find out and good luck.

 

[cloud9]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Threw in fresh DTC-70s (hoping unrealistically to make it 3 days at RA on them), bed them, bled brakes, swapped seats, put in camera, cleaned air filter, put on some Pirelli takeoffs and ready to load on the trailer tomorrow. Looking forward to meeting up with steveespo, LS110 and hopefully Black Boss.

 

[Roadhouse]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Mounted my 18x10.5 Enkei PF01s with 315/680/18 Pirelli slicks square. These tires are FAT! And the wheels are bright LOL

 

[steveespo]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

I am sadly at work today, but am planning the rotor/pad change plus replacing the front control arm mounting bolts and the lower ball joint spindle bolt and nut combination tomorrow. Also will have photos of an updated graphics package that the 21 will be sporting for my first trip to Road America with John, Gary and Nick this coming week.
Steve

 

[cloud9]

Re: What did you do to your boss today?

Mounted my 18x10.5 Enkei PF01s with 315/680/18 Pirelli slicks square. These tires are FAT! And the wheels are bright LOL

My old wheels look better than they did when they were new! 8)