Blowfish Racing Shifter Fix

[pufferfish]

sorry for abandoning everyone in this discussion. i had a lot to read through. i have been relying on email notifications for posts and didn't receive any, so i assumed no one was posting. i came on this morning to try to address the noise issues...and you all have already been discussing...ALOT!

so, i can't seem to replicate the noise in my car. i ordered a barton shifter, which should arrive today, to test fit to see if there are issues with clearance, as a fair amount of the complaints i have received are with the barton. but now as i read, it may be something else or a combination of things.

i have a better understanding of fitment, but don't quite understand why. it seems while some have plenty of adjustment in the upper to lower bracket slots, others are jammed at the lowest position and finding it difficult to get the bolts in. there are tolerances in the body that i have yet to fully identify, but it seems the tolerance can be as great as 1/2" from what folks are reporting. i now know that the whiteline insert raises the trans by around 1/8" by not allowing the isolator to squish. i know that the barton shifter flange is a fair bit thicker than stock, which forces it to sit lower. fitment issues can cause noise, but in the cases i have been hearing, i don't believe that is really the cause.

the noise appears to be universally, this marbly sounding frequency that is effected by rpm and as the rpms rise, it turns into more of a buzzing. i believe it is a frequency generated in the trans and transmitted to the shifter, which may or may not amplify the frequency. the interesting part of this issue is that removing the shift knob seems to cure it in every case where it was tried. i have not heard of anyone reporting that it didn't cure the noise when removed. i ask all of you with the noise to remove your shift knobs and report back. i need to know if this is truely the "speaker" in this sound system.

it seems that about 5% of vehicles out there with the product right now are reporting this noise, which in the grand scheme of things isn't so bad, but that annoys the heck out of me. maybe its an issue with the design, but i doubt it. i believe its the surrounding components. in either case, its my issue to solve because its the addition of my product that makes it happen.

i appreciate everyone's comments, theories, testing, checking, etc. keep up the good work!

 

[Bullitt 3309]

So far I am 10 miles into the bracket. I have the MGW and set the BR bracket all the way down, then up 1/8 inch. I also swapped to the race bushing as well. No buzzing or resonance that I can hear over the off road exhaust. I will say the shifting has seemed to get easier, I think the factory mounting wasnt an ideal spot for the shifting mechanism. I am really enjoying driving the car now!

 

[drano38]

Steve,
I've got a stock shifter, and mine vibrates pretty good on hard acceleration.

Maybe the shifter ball causes the shifter lever to hit a resonant frequency at specific speeds/RPMs.
Removing the shifter ball would change that resonant frequency.
Maybe we need heavier or lighter shifter balls to get out of that frequency.
Just a thought, and flashback to Physics 101 waaay too many years ago.

 

[Bullitt 3309]

I am running a weight shift ball I got off Ebay. I weighs about a pound.

 

[thehueypilot]

I installed mine yesterday and it took a little longer than an hour but that’s because I removed the Whiteline bushing because I thought it added a little NVH before the bracket was installed. The MGW support mount instructions are a little confusing as to how it is attached (orientation) and I had it backwards the first time as the MGW support rods did not stick all the way through the MGW support bracket. I turned it around and the support rods now stick out the back approximately 1/4 inch. I measured the shifter height before I started and by luck it came out to the same height after I finished. I have no noise and it does shift smoother. The biggest improvement is it goes into the reverse gear a lot easier. I have put about 50 miles on it with no issues with noise. It does vibrate slightly more than before but I can live with that for better shifting. The best part is that is was "Made in the USA"!!!!!!!! Thanks Steve for supporting our great country!

Tim

 

[steveespo]

I have the MGW and get the shifter vibration but no audible noises through the rpm range. Also no contact between the shifter and body or studs. With ARH headers and x pipe I did have to drop one mid pipe to get the bracket in, no biggie but don't waste time trying to do without dropping the exhaust pipe.
Steve E

 

[drano38]

Got a chance to test drive with my rubber belting between the upper blue bracket and the snout clamp. See post #523 for pics. The rubber belting is a touch over 1/8" thick.

Overall, a lot better. Still some audible vibration and shifter knob movement, but not as severe. Goes away at normal cruise. But even moderate acceleration above 3k will start the vibration.
Shifting is more precise, and as mentioned above, getting into reverse is much easier also.

I'll give it a good test this weekend at the MPH Mustang Roundup.

 

[ms71171]

I took the ball off and it lessened the rattle but did not eliminate it. I have the stock shifter and it's 2 and 3rd gear under acceleration. It reminds me of how sometimes an aftermarket shifter will rattle. I place my hand on the shifter and it goes away.

 

[F.D. Sako]

Got a chance to test drive with my rubber belting between the upper blue bracket and the snout clamp. See post #523 for pics. The rubber belting is a touch over 1/8" thick.

Overall, a lot better. Still some audible vibration and shifter knob movement, but not as severe. Goes away at normal cruise. But even moderate acceleration above 3k will start the vibration.
Shifting is more precise, and as mentioned above, getting into reverse is much easier also.

I'll give it a good test this weekend at the MPH Mustang Roundup.

Raising the rear mount would cause more contact with the studs in the tunnel, if you have the MGW shifter.

 

[drano38]

Raising the rear mount would cause more contact with the studs in the tunnel, if you have the MGW shifter.

I've got the stock shifter.
When I had the new bracket almost all the way up, I had no contact with the original studs. When I was back under there, I saw now impact marks on the studs, or on the bracket.
Good info to check though.

 

[skwerl]

I took the ball off and it lessened the rattle but did not eliminate it. I have the stock shifter and it's 2 and 3rd gear under acceleration. It reminds me of how sometimes an aftermarket shifter will rattle. I place my hand on the shifter and it goes away.

Sounds a lot like the stock rear shifter mount studs are hitting the BF rear bracket. Have you looked underneath to see how much clearance you have?

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Word seems to be spreading on other Forums about vibration and rattle noises. Was this reported or noticed by any of the Beta Testers?

Dave
2HP

 

[808Boss]

Installed the BF bracket this weekend along with the whiteline bushing insert (hole cut out in center). I must say it is a definite improvement.Smoother shifts, no lockout yet. Will take it to the drags this weekend to see if there is any difference with lockout. I got a very small vibration in the shifter afterwards. No real noticeable nvh otherwise. I did end up removing the oem rear shifter studs since my mgw shifter was hitting it. In any case , don't plan on going back to the old setup is why I did it.
Great job Steve! Thanks,

Jeff

 

[boss man]

Word seems to be spreading on other Forums about vibration and rattle noises. Was is reported or noticed by any of the Beta Testers?

Dave
2HP

No noises here. There is a very small increase in vibration. However, the changes it made in my shifting is well worth the small vibration. To me it just feels like it's an old school shifter that works! Just so everyone knows....I'm still running the proto type bracket and very happy with it! Also my car is loud...Roush axel backs / cat delete / no rear seat / hearing impaired.. ;D

 

[pufferfish]

Got a chance to test drive with my rubber belting between the upper blue bracket and the snout clamp. See post #523 for pics. The rubber belting is a touch over 1/8" thick.

Overall, a lot better. Still some audible vibration and shifter knob movement, but not as severe. Goes away at normal cruise. But even moderate acceleration above 3k will start the vibration.

vibration is expected, noise is not. the belting idea has me thinking about how the vibration is being transmitted. there must be a trans frequency that is being translated to the shifter. the factory arm is rubber bushed, so there is limited conduction of frequency there, but the bracket is hard mounted from the trans all the way to the shifter box (except on the MGW). your belting experiment demonstrates this, but it lacks complete isolation as the bolts are still metal to metal contact. i am going to work on an experiment. is there anyone in maryland with the noise that i could test on?

 

[WinterSucks]

Do you think changing out the bolts from the mount to the shifter box to shoulder screws with a washer and rubber bushing would help dampen the vibration enough? It will definitely do something, just not sure if it would be enough. I have not looked at it yet but I imagine you would have to drill out the BR bracket a bit to fit a bushing in there so the bolt can't hit the sides or top. I am not sure which size bolts the BR mount uses so I'm just throwing these out there:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#shoulder-screws/=tqxsq4

and a type 6 bushing:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#load-rated-bushings/=tqxuma

McMaster has been a good friend to me ;D

 

[pufferfish]

mcmaster is a prototyper's best friend...been my go to for years!

your thought is very similar to what i was thinking. the main issue is the fact that the thread is M10, so that makes a 12mm shoulder diameter, which is makes the hole requirements too big for the bracket.

 

[Calif boss302]

Steve thanks for keeping us posted. I have yet to install mine but after reading all these posts I think you are right in that even with a bushing between the rear mount and the upper bracket the frequency (if that is what is causing it) will still be transmitted through the bolts (even with rubber washers and shoulder washers.

Could a simple fix be enlarging the round opening in the black rear snub mount to run a very thin rubber or dymax type of bushing around the ID of the rear mount between the mount and the snub nose of the stock shifter? This may isolate the frequency from the shifterbox in the way MGW isolates the two rear posts via the rubber rear mount. Anyway just thinking out loud here.

vibration is expected, noise is not. the belting idea has me thinking about how the vibration is being transmitted. there must be a trans frequency that is being translated to the shifter. the factory arm is rubber bushed, so there is limited conduction of frequency there, but the bracket is hard mounted from the trans all the way to the shifter box (except on the MGW). your belting experiment demonstrates this, but it lacks complete isolation as the bolts are still metal to metal contact. i am going to work on an experiment. is there anyone in maryland with the noise that i could test on?

 

[WinterSucks]

Well there is always time for a version 2 for next year

 

[pufferfish]

Steve thanks for keeping us posted. I have yet to install mine but after reading all these posts I think you are right in that even with a bushing between the rear mount and the upper bracket the frequency (if that is what is causing it) will still be transmitted through the bolts (even with rubber washers and shoulder washers.

Could a simple fix be enlarging the round opening in the black rear snub mount to run a very thin rubber or dymax type of bushing around the ID of the rear mount between the mount and the snub nose of the stock shifter? This may isolate the frequency from the shifterbox in the way MGW isolates the two rear posts via the rubber rear mount. Anyway just thinking out loud here.

clamping the rubber/isolator material around the snout will not help much. the isolating material must be allowed to move to be able to not translate the frequency from one part to the next.

the issue i am having is, part of this deisgn with the hard clamp was to correct an inconsistancy issue with the ford shifter box arm. the arm is a weldment, which doesn't have a consistent face position. this is why some folks get the 1-2 notchiness. the box is clocked away from the optimal 12:00 position, which pinches off the 1-2 gate. the solid clamp forces the box to sit in the 12:00 position regardless of the tolerance in the OE arm. insulating this connection allows the box to go back to its normal clock position.