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Engine build

Hi Guys

As many of you will know i had the misfortune to loose my engine and its not covered under warrantee as im outside the USA.

Please dont cloud the thread replies with suggestions for asking ford for help, lets assume for the moment there is no help so im starting from scratch

I need some guidance on which way to take things forward.

Currently the engine is out and we know that the bottom end is toast, ie crank, con rods pistons even the block has surface damage near the cylinder head where the piston let go.

The right hand head is fine , the left hand head has 4 damaged valves and rollers although the camshafts look ok.

So thats where we are, the car has no mods to the drive train apart from 1 piece alli drive shaft.

So where to go from here regarding replacing/rebuilding.

Option 1 My initial thought was to purchase a replacement Boss crate motor at $ 11,000 and have it as an easy swap, would i be correct in assuming that the trackey tune would be fine as its stored in the ECU. so everything should work straight? Only problem here is that dealers are saying the Boss motor is no longer available, i have not tried all the obvious vendors yet so this is still an option.

Option 2 Buy a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate for normally aspirated engines $ 7850 and fit our Boss intake, im assuming i will need a custom tune for this and ill loose the trackey. If i go down this route i could add a CAI and long tubes, maybe change the clutch while im at it maybe get 500HP?

Option 3 Buy a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate XS $ 14399 , now this adds a chunk of cash to gain what, im not sure as i dont know enough about this engine, ford says it makes over 500 hp but it seems we can do that with a tune and exhaust system on option 2, would the engine be to rough for day to day use, i dont know

Option 4, Buy a new block, crank , pistons the whole works, change the hads and go for higher lift cams and do a rebuild and tune

As always ill appreciate any help, as im up shiznit creek without a paddle ( or a boss)

ian
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
big red one said:
Hi Guys

As many of you will know i had the misfortune to loose my engine and its not covered under warrantee as im outside the USA.

Please dont cloud the thread replies with suggestions for asking ford for help, lets assume for the moment there is no help so im starting from scratch

I need some guidance on which way to take things forward.

Currently the engine is out and we know that the bottom end is toast, ie crank, con rods pistons even the block has surface damage near the cylinder head where the piston let go.

The right hand head is fine , the left hand head has 4 damaged valves and rollers although the camshafts look ok.

So thats where we are, the car has no mods to the drive train apart from 1 piece alli drive shaft.

So where to go from here regarding replacing/rebuilding.

Option 1 My initial thought was to purchase a replacement Boss crate motor at $ 11,000 and have it as an easy swap, would i be correct in assuming that the trackey tune would be fine as its stored in the ECU. so everything should work straight? Only problem here is that dealers are saying the Boss motor is no longer available, i have not tried all the obvious vendors yet so this is still an option.

Option 2 Buy a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate for normally aspirated engines $ 7850 and fit our Boss intake, im assuming i will need a custom tune for this and ill loose the trackey. If i go down this route i could add a CAI and long tubes, maybe change the clutch while im at it maybe get 500HP?

Option 3 Buy a Ford Racing 5.0L 4V DOHC Aluminator Crate XS $ 14399 , now this adds a chunk of cash to gain what, im not sure as i dont know enough about this engine, ford says it makes over 500 hp but it seems we can do that with a tune and exhaust system on option 2, would the engine be to rough for day to day use, i dont know

Option 4, Buy a new block, crank , pistons the whole works, change the hads and go for higher lift cams and do a rebuild and tune

As always ill appreciate any help, as im up shiznit creek without a paddle ( or a boss)

ian

Ian

All are good options. I guess it depends upon budget, desired end state and how much tuning you are will/able to do.

The simplest and most likely the cheapest would be to rebuild back to what you had or a similar state.

Have you considered a slight mod to Option 4? Replacement block, rebuild your heads to stock specs but add stronger rods and pistons with a Boss Crank. Power output will be same as original but you should be able to retain the original and track key tunes.

There are a few suppliers, engine builders who can supply the bottom end as described as an assembly. From the outside you would have a boss but on the inside things would be stronger. If at a later date you wanted to upgrade, the foundation would be laid.

When you change the configuration of the heads, cams, compression etc, you will need a tune. You could receive tunes online. Any Dyno work may be difficult in your location.

The big buck Aluminator is attractive. Add in shipping and customs and OMG. I guess it all depends upon what you have a taste for.

I feel sorry for the loss of the original motor. Although this is a great opportunity to add strength and or HP to the motor.

Possible supplier:

http://www.blowbyracing.com/bbrcushbl.html

http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com
 
TMSBOSS said:
Ian

All are good options. I guess it depends upon budget, desired end state and how much tuning you are will/able to do.

The simplest and most likely the cheapest would be to rebuild back to what you had or a similar state.

Have you considered a slight mod to Option 4? Replacement block, rebuild your heads to stock specs but add stronger rods and pistons with a Boss Crank. Power output will be same as original but you should be able to retain the original and track key tunes.

There are a few suppliers, engine builders who can supply the bottom end as described as an assembly. From the outside you would have a boss but on the inside things would be stronger. If at a later date you wanted to upgrade, the foundation would be laid.

When you change the configuration of the heads, cams, compression etc, you will need a tune. You could receive tunes online. Any Dyno work may be difficult in your location.

The big buck Aluminator is attractive. Add in shipping and customs and OMG. I guess it all depends upon what you have a taste for.

I feel sorry for the loss of the original motor. Although this is a great opportunity to add strength and or HP to the motor.

Possible supplier:

http://www.blowbyracing.com/bbrcushbl.html

http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com
I like Tracy's idea and I'd go with MMR. Ask CaptainDistraction aka Chris about MMR.
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,635
2,587
Arizona, USA
The Boss CRATE engine is no longer available but if you want one, all the COMPONENTS are individually available--so it can be built.

My guess is the majority of opinions will say add some power and extra aftermarket parts since you're starting over from scratch, probably not a bad idea if you can afford it.

Main difference with that Aluminator NA crate is that it "only" has Mustang GT heads/valvetrain. If your heads are intact you could re-use those, or spend the extra money for a set of BOSS heads, although now you're getting back into the $10K range.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
I would expect the heads from the original Boss engine are good. A rebuild on the damaged head and a freshen up for the other will bring them back to new spec. Add four new valves, new followers, maybe seats for the same hole, potentially better valve springs and keepers.

Good luck with the build
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
I'd reuse the good head. Build a shortblock with mostly stock Boss parts, and just buy the other head and cams. As long as you use Boss pistons, you should be okay to use the factory and TracKey tunes. Upgrade the parts that aren't tune specific like the pulse ring and billet oil pump gears maybe an oil pan.

Good luck...I'm sorry to hear so little is salvageable. :(
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Grant 302 said:
I'd reuse the good head. Build a shortblock with mostly stock Boss parts, and just buy the other head and cams. As long as you use Boss pistons, you should be okay to use the factory and TracKey tunes. Upgrade the parts that aren't tune specific like the pulse ring and billet oil pump gears maybe an oil pan.

Good luck...I'm sorry to hear so little is salvageable. :(

Dumping a head for bent valves???

May not be necessary.

Will definitely cost a grand, at least.

Have your shop evaluate the suspect head. Valve guides, seated and valves should all be removable IF required.

Normally, only parts required after piston to valve contact are the piston, valve, cam, follower and pushrods in a pushrods engine. Cams already checked OK. If you are throwing away a $1k plus casting just because......throw it my way. LOL
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
TMSBOSS said:
Dumping a head for bent valves???
ArizonaBOSS said:
The valves on the Boss engine are about $8 each--I'd definitely not toss out a good head for the sake of a couple valves.

I look at it the other way. I don't want the risk potential for a $1k potentially damaged part to ruin a $5k+ build. Strip that head and sell it to someone doing a full rebuild larger valves and/or port job. An event that broke followers is too much for me. Just what I'd do...if trying to keep the stock + TracKey tune.
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Grant 302 said:
I look at it the other way. I don't want the risk potential for a $1k potentially damaged part to ruin a $5k+ build. Strip that head and sell it to someone doing a full rebuild larger valves and/or port job. An event that broke followers is too much for me. Just what I'd do...if trying to keep the stock + TracKey tune.

Not to argue........ too much but.

Its a casting. All parts are inspectable and replaceable.

If the casting is not damaged, why not reuse??
 
TMSBOSS said:
Not to argue........ too much but.

Its a casting. All parts are inspectable and replaceable.

If the casting is not damaged, why not reuse??

The price of a new head with valves i think is only $ 700 and as our shop has never rebuilt a Mustang engine ( plenty of europeans) i didn't want to take a chance, also if I'm going to rebuild, why not rebuild with the higher lift cams that FR said they would have done on the Boss but ran out of time, I'm thinking that if I'm going to do a build then i should be able to increase power with the lessons that have been learnt since the boss was introduced.

So i need a build spec!

thanks for the input so far
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
big red one said:
The price of a new head with valves i think is only $ 700 and as our shop has never rebuilt a Mustang engine ( plenty of europeans) i didn't want to take a chance, also if I'm going to rebuild, why not rebuild with the higher lift cams that FR said they would have done on the Boss but ran out of time, I'm thinking that if I'm going to do a build then i should be able to increase power with the lessons that have been learnt since the boss was introduced.

So i need a build spec!

thanks for the input so far

At $700.00 a head this is most likely a Coyote NONE BOSS head.

Price for complete head assemblies, No Cams. Valves, springs etc. assembled.

Boss.

Part Number: M-6050-M50BR

Full Retail is $1495.00 Jegs Racers cost: $1265.00

Standard Coyote

M-6050-M50

Full Retail $1049.00 Jegs Racers Cost:$841.29

Could you get a bare head for $700.00 ??? Probably. Why? If they can build a head from parts, they should be able to repair the original.

Boss heads have been ported and are therefore a bit more expensive.

Different cams will most likely produce more power. Normally at the cost of drivability, not always.

You will definitely need a custom tune for the new cams and any other changes from stock that you make.

Track Key will be lost.

I would bet any good shop that repairs a european cylinder head will be able to repair a Ford Coyote head. Very similar designs. Parts delays would be my only concern.

Is the price, $700.00 in Pounds???
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
big red one said:

Saw the article. I believe the owner is a member here.

Great updates. And yes, this would be a good time to make the changes, if your budget, both money and time allow.

For giggles, I priced the upgrade. Over $5k for parts, add a tune and other items that will pop up.

I believe the car in the article already had an upgraded exhaust, which will be necessary also.

As I read the article I thought....I could do that....the daughter would get used to a community college....I can find the extra cash. Probably not. LOL

A lot of money for the HP gain. With the efficiencies Ford built into the Coyote, most power upgrades will be expensive.
 
TMSBOSS said:
Great updates. And yes, this would be a good time to make the changes, if your budget, both money and time allow. Well in comparison to buying a crate engine i think the build may work out cheaper, if your engines of then its a lot of money if your facing a crate cost of $12k up then maybe this build could prove sensible, at least thats what i was thinking
 

TMSBOSS

Spending my pension on car parts and track fees.
6,960
4,277
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Illinois
Sensible is relative I guess. LOL

If this is a direction you would want to go, I know I would, I think you will have a screamer when you finish.

Once I figure out how to put down the power my car makes now, mostly drivers mods required at this point, and college tuition is behind us, I will look at this mod.

I too would love to have this combo. You have the opportunity to build a stronger bottom end while increasing power. Should serve you well.

Is there a possibility of a dyno tune where you are located? Different fuels, different air etc. could make tuning challenging via the internet.
 
TMSBOSS said:
Sensible is relative I guess. LOL

If this is a direction you would want to go, I know I would, I think you will have a screamer when you finish.

Once I figure out how to put down the power my car makes now, mostly drivers mods required at this point, and college tuition is behind us, I will look at this mod.

I too would love to have this combo. You have the opportunity to build a stronger bottom end while increasing power. Should serve you well.

Is there a possibility of a dyno tune where you are located? Different fuels, different air etc. could make tuning challenging via the internet.

Yeah can get all the dyno done here and data logghed, sent back to the states etc, a lot of guys here who have superchargers fitted to their mustangs do a similar thing
 
154
0
Another option of your going to spend $14k...there are some wrecked Bosses that you may be able to purchase, swap engine and then sell off the other parts from the wrecked boss...
 

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