Engine Rebuild

[gtorpedo]

I hate to create this thread but need to discuss options for an engine rebuild on my 2015 GT.

Symptoms: Peterson breather can will completely fill with oil blow-by after a every run session. While I've had blow-by issues in the past (especially through the driver side PCV) its finally reached a critical level. The car still runs STRONG but I cannot wait until a complete failure and the excessive oil blow-by creates a very serious safety concern.

Ran a compression and leak down test with the following results:

Unfortunately, the results suggest piston/ring damage to cylinders 7 and 8.

Some details regarding my existing build:
- Car only has ~18k miles and 23 total track days (i figure maybe 30-40 hrs track time)
- Engine modifications include: GT350 IM/TB, TSS billet OPG/CS, AED tune, Airaid CAI, Peterson breather

I've brainstormed a lot regarding paths forward and i'm leaning towards having a fresh factory short block (~$2,000) or possibly Ford Performance Aluminator (~$5,200) put in vs. rebuilding the existing short block. Maybe I can have a shop tear down the bottom end and replace the rings and or pistons, but at that point its tough to not just go with the fresh factory short block.

I put together the following cost estimate and have placeholders for labor and credit for the old short block. Any large items i'm missing here? Looking like an $11k rebuild after everything is done, minimum

I'm talking to a few shops near me (JPC and JDM) on estimates but want to be as educated as possible in making my final decisions.

 

[captdistraction]

This is something I have a lot of experience with.

For starters, skip the aluminator shortblock. Its spendy, doesn't have a warranty, and is built to roughly the same oem specifications (which vary fairly wildly, not great for performance applications).

$11k per motor is a fair number, these things aren't inexpensive by any means.

If I were in your position, I'd take one of these two approaches:

OEM shortblock: nasty clearances, but inexpensive and high value of reliability per dollar. If it breaks again, its $2000 plus core to change it out.

Rebuild yours or a virgin block build: I'm doing one of these right now, and the blueprinting of a factory "finish machined" block is pretty shocking. All of the tolerances were all over the place, and they are not honed with torque plates which means when you put heads on them the cylinders are ovaled some, which is a common contributor to some of the issues you are seeing. The challenges are 1) extra time and money in getting the right parts, and 2) finding a shop competent to handle blueprinting and building of the motor. I've lucked out on the latter but I've already had to order pistons twice (as we couldn't make a 302 work on this block, had to take it up to 304 to get good measurements and p2v within tolerances from the piston manufacturer).

The latter is more expensive but will make more power and in theory last longer.

Either way you want to replace all the one-time use hardware: (head cap bolts, phaser to cam bolts, oil pan bolts, damper bolt, flywheel bolts, head bolts, etc).

If it were just the catch can filling I'd point a finger at the Gen2 cam covers being a problem, they are baffled differently than the Gen1 covers and can cause excessive oil in open catch can systems. However that leakdown and compression test is indeed indicating wear on that driver side bank.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I think we have had differing experiences with the Aluminator short block, but I don't have the measurement data to back it up. Mine has (luckily) been strong for some time (*rapidly tapping some wood over here*). The attractive part of the Aluminator short block to me was that the "art" of building the engine was already done, without having to find a trustworthy machine shop and/or builder. But there may be less expensive ways to get that done, if you're willing to take the time.

Also if you think that it's really on the way out, better to retire that engine now before it grenades and takes out your remaining salvageable components.

Regarding "labor"--I'm not sure what your level of mechanical inclination is, but once you have a complete short block, putting the rest of the engine together is fairly easy, with general tools including a torque wrench and proper instructions. You'll need an engine stand and hoist but those things are generally inexpensive.

 

[gtorpedo]

Another option I had not listed but seems solid is going with a JPC/RGR short block http://www.jpcracing.com/rgr-built-5-0-coyote-short-block-rated-1100-hp/
After deducting $800 for my core block+crank and accounting for shipping its exactly the same price of an Aluminator. The downside with this is its ~ a 2 month turnaround. I'm not in a rush either way, I just want the job done right if I'm doing a tear down and rebuild and (hopefully) never have to address this issue again.

I'm fairly competent mechanically and would be inclined to do some work, but I just don't have the space or helping hands to accommodate pulling the motor and reassembling.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Bummer, the #8 cylinder going bad is very common on the coyote. That's the one that went boom on my Boss. Good luck with your build.

 

[Nvrfinished]

Man, that is a bummer. Good luck with the rebuild and I hope things go smoothly for you.

 

[2012-Boss]

Hard choice between the Aluminator and the RGR shortblock. I would probably go with the Aluminator only because I have heard of very few failures vs. custom builds.

You will need an oil pump installation kit, M-6600-A50PKIT. But, double check the valve cover gaskets. At least take a look at what is in the kit, you will probably need some more gaskets, seals, and the damper bolt.

I would also recommend looking at the camshaft installation kit, M-6004-A5015. I think you are missing some one-time fasteners. This might be overkill given the number of miles on your current engine.

I do not see billet oil pump gears or a CJ pump on your list. I would either get the CJ pump, M-6600-50CJ. A cheaper, and just as good, alternative are TSS billet oil pump gears installed in NEW OE oil pump.

 

[gtorpedo]

After discussing with my tuner, @Shaun@AED, another factor which may have resulted in the ring damage was running 93 octane and not race gas (which is the only fuel he recommends for road course use). I was unaware of this and after looking into this a bit more on TMO, others have recommended the same. Nothing I can do about it now but seems like running race gas going forward will be a bit of "cheap insurance" on a $10k+ motor.

 

[Nvrfinished]

That's interesting news. I've always topped my tank with 3-4 gallons of race gas from the pumps at the track thinking that it may help when the engine is under load for stretches of time. I guess I will continue the practice.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

That's interesting news. I've always topped my tank with 3-4 gallons of race gas from the pumps at the track thinking that it may help when the engine is under load for stretches of time. I guess I will continue the practice.

That can never hurt you.

 

[Grant 302]

That's interesting news. I've always topped my tank with 3-4 gallons of race gas from the pumps at the track thinking that it may help when the engine is under load for stretches of time. I guess I will continue the practice.

I consider it a mandatory minimum here where we only have 91 E10. The Procal or TracKey tunes will ping otherwise, even with the octane adjust setting 'On'.

...seems like running race gas going forward will be a bit of "cheap insurance" on a $10k+ motor.

That's part of my rationale. Good that you heard it direct from your tuner. FR/FP denies that anything more than 91 is needed.

 

[2012-Boss]

Running race gas or a race gas blend is never a bad idea. AED's recommendation is race gas for road course use.

I do not run race gas in my own car. But, my tune also has more fuel and less timing than factory, especially compared to the TracKey. I have had detailed discussions with my tuner about being conservative. He does trackside support for a number of East coast road racers, so he does understand the operational environment. I am leaving some power on the table as a trade off.

 

[Grant 302]

I have had detailed discussions with my tuner about being conservative.

That's the only smart way to stick with 100% pump gas.

 

[gtorpedo]

Based on feedback and research to date, likely going with the Aluminator short block as a base. Will also add the L&M intake only cams and change out the valve springs to the Boss 302R (or possibly Trick Flow?) while they are in there.

A few items in the Ford Performance catalog that seem like good reliability upgrades - anyone with experience using these?
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE CAM PHASER (M-6004-A50R)
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE LASH ADJUSTERS (M-6500-M50R)

 

[bauern]

A few items in the Ford Performance catalog that seem like good reliability upgrades - anyone with experience using these?
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE CAM PHASER (M-6004-A50R)
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE LASH ADJUSTERS (M-6500-M50R)

I have them but haven't finished the engine yet. I believe these are used on the GT350R. Depending on how much you are carrying over from the other engine, you can look into using GT350 primary chains GR3Z6268A and tensioner GR3Z6L266A.

 

[captdistraction]

Based on feedback and research to date, likely going with the Aluminator short block as a base. Will also add the L&M intake only cams and change out the valve springs to the Boss 302R (or possibly Trick Flow?) while they are in there.

A few items in the Ford Performance catalog that seem like good reliability upgrades - anyone with experience using these?
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE CAM PHASER (M-6004-A50R)
- COYOTE HIGH PERFORMANCE LASH ADJUSTERS (M-6500-M50R)

I'm putting the lash adjusters in my new coyote build. They look to have a larger reservoir, and supposedly maintain adjustment better through aeration events.

 

[Mad Hatter]

As far as fuel goes I log me car with SCT Livelink software before a race and after any engine work or "anomally"...... You can see the quality of gas change as you get different readings from the same pump any given month! Shaun recomended taking the Octane up 5 points from the tune level.... So I try to get to 98 Octane for race days with my 93 pump gas tune.... But Sunoco GT260+ is about US$27 a gallon down here

 

[2012-Boss]

I don’t think anything you or others listed are a bad idea. Do you need them? I am not sure of the answer. It really depends on how often you are going to track the car and the RPM you plan to routinely use / shift at.

With the intake, headers, and cams you motor will make power to approximately 7,800. If that is where you will routinely run the motor, I would definitely spend the money on the better valve train components.

Another way to look at it is that you are going to spend $5.5k on the short block. Should you really skimp on the supporting parts?

 

[gtorpedo]

I don’t think anything you or others listed are a bad idea. Do you need them? I am not sure of the answer. It really depends on how often you are going to track the car and the RPM you plan to routinely use / shift at.

With the intake, headers, and cams you motor will make power to approximately 7,800. If that is where you will routinely run the motor, I would definitely spend the money on the better valve train components.

Another way to look at it is that you are going to spend $5.5k on the short block. Should you really skimp on the supporting parts?

I am certainly not looking to cut any corners - reliability is a top priority for the rebuild and I agree with your assessment. Just want to make sure there are no "downside" to these parts given they are a new application to the Coyote platform.

Below is a revised parts list and cost estimate:

 

[bauern]

I believe the VCT solenoids are priced individually so you'd be in for ~$280. I don't believe they are that much better than stock.

Edit: Do you still need the block hardware kit with the short block purchase?