Late S197 Front Control Arms...CAM-C car

[s9669s]

Over the last couple events, I developed a clunk in the front end of my car. (2011 Mustang GT CAM-C car, moderately serious build)

With the car up in the air this morning, I found a torn and leaking passenger side front control arm bushing. ~30k-mile / 12 year old Ford originals, with a few seasons of autocross on them...not bad!

Now the search for replacements. Thinking getting bushings and ball joints both out of the way is likely a good idea, so... What is the current wisdom on the best replacement front control arms for later S197's?

Limited street use--moderate level of NVH increase is not an issue.

 

[V8VOL]

I’m nearing 30k in my 2014 as well. Below are on my short list as a plug n play replacement.

Steeda S197 Mustang Front Lower Control Arms with X11 Extended Ball Joints (2011-2014)

Steeda's LCA's for S197 Ford Mustangs with X11 Extended Ball Joints raise the front roll center, eliminating the issues associated with lowering springs of 3/4 drop or greater.

www.steeda.com

 

[EF1]

Be careful in selecting control arm bushings for a 2011. Stiffer bushings seem to be the nail in the coffin for the factory EPAS.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Those of us racing our cars have not had good luck with the Steeda pre-loaded arms.
I would suggest Boss 302S LCAs.

Either way, the comment from @EF1 above regarding the 2011 (and only 2011) steering rack issues when changing bushings are real, and annoying.

Good luck!

 

[s9669s]

Good catch on the rack... I updated my car with a 2013 rack because I was getting a hard shake under braking with the stock bushings. Only cost me 2 sets of rotors and a lot on of searching threads here to figure that one out!

I had heard the Steeda tall ball joints are a common failure... Which Boss 302S arms are the ticket (P/N)? And are they still available?

Thanks!

 

[EF1]

The EPAS issues affected all of the 2011's and some of the 2012's. I swapped to the Boss 302s EPAS after mine became undriveable. I am running stock arms modified to use screw in Howe ball joints from the Boss 302s and energy suspension urethane bushings. Basically the 302s arms with urethane instead of delrin bushings.

 

[s9669s]

I found a source for NOS M-3075-R arms, which are being sold as 'FR500C' replacement arms, with 19mm taller ball joints but no bushings.

Are these a good option? (With the appropriate bushing kit, assuming they are available...?)

 

[DaveW]

The Steeda X11 ball joints are wear items. IMO replace once a season if you insist on using them. Or whenever they break in two I just went back to stock Moogs.

I did the energy suspension (IIRC) bushings originally on my arms and they were meh. Seems like after a few seasons, they got noisy and I had trouble keeping the bolts tight.

I switched to the Boss 302 bushing kit 3 seasons ago and haven't looked back. The downside is to do this you have to get the old back bushing off the old arms which was a miserable experience.

DaveW

 

[blacksheep-1]

The Steeda extnded ball joints were a must have for th old SN95s because their roll center was all hosed up when you lowered the car. The S197 and above does not seem to suffer from the same issue (thank you Jesus!) and I'm not sure the extended ball joints even come into play, they do raise the roll center.. something that was needed in the sn95, but not so much in the s197s.Thanks for the comments, I'll be doing this soon on project superbeater.

 

[EF1]

The Steeda X11 ball joints are wear items. IMO replace once a season if you insist on using them. Or whenever they break in two I just went back to stock Moogs.

I did the energy suspension (IIRC) bushings originally on my arms and they were meh. Seems like after a few seasons, they got noisy and I had trouble keeping the bolts tight.

I switched to the Boss 302 bushing kit 3 seasons ago and haven't looked back. The downside is to do this you have to get the old back bushing off the old arms which was a miserable experience.

DaveW

I went back and looked. I am running Prothane bushings not Energy Suspension. Does anyone know if the two materials differ? I have not had any problems and they have not come loose yet. How much difference in feel is there between urethane and delrin? I am thinking about trying it next.

 

[Swiss Boss]

As far as ball join, the threaded one from Watson are pretty easy to install for a competent welder and are serviceable

HOWE EXTENDED BALL JOINT - BALL JOINT ONLY

HOWE EXTENDED BALL JOINT - BALL JOINT ONLY

shop.watsonracing.com

 

[DaveW]

I went back and looked. I am running Prothane bushings not Energy Suspension. Does anyone know if the two materials differ? I have not had any problems and they have not come loose yet. How much difference in feel is there between urethane and delrin? I am thinking about trying it next.

IMO, there is no difference in between feel or performance for these. I would not hassle a change if yours are functioning well. Mine plain wore out, we are talking 5 seasons and thousands of autocross runs. They didn't owe me anything.

As far as ball join, the threaded one from Watson are pretty easy to install for a competent welder and are serviceable

HOWE EXTENDED BALL JOINT - BALL JOINT ONLY

HOWE EXTENDED BALL JOINT - BALL JOINT ONLY

shop.watsonracing.com

I looked super hard at these when I had the trouble with the Steeda ones. In the end, I didn't feel any handling change going from the Steeda back to stock length ones. Now I have an MM K member which explicitly says to not use extended ball joints.

DaveW

 

[blacksheep-1]

IMO, there is no difference in between feel or performance for these. I would not hassle a change if yours are functioning well. Mine plain wore out, we are talking 5 seasons and thousands of autocross runs. They didn't owe me anything.




I looked super hard at these when I had the trouble with the Steeda ones. In the end, I didn't feel any handling change going from the Steeda back to stock length ones. Now I have an MM K member which explicitly says to not use extended ball joints.

DaveW

I don't think these are necessary with these cars. The old SN95s they were mandatory because of the roll centers when you lowered the old cars. I see no benefit to them.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

I found a source for NOS M-3075-R arms, which are being sold as 'FR500C' replacement arms, with 19mm taller ball joints but no bushings.

Are these a good option? (With the appropriate bushing kit, assuming they are available...?)

Don't get those--they are the older style FLCA. The 2011+ FLCA has more reinforcement in some of the flex areas including near the ball joint itself.

I don't see a path to just buying the pre-loaded 302S FLCAs anymore, that sucks. You would have to modify the existing arms you have or order a new set of OEM replacement arms 2011+ and add the Watson/Howe ball joints, threaded sleeves, and boots. Like these guys said, easy job for a competent welder. Make sure they weld the top and bottom of the threaded insert to the arm.

 

[ShifterX]

The Steeda extnded ball joints were a must have for th old SN95s because their roll center was all hosed up when you lowered the car. The S197 and above does not seem to suffer from the same issue (thank you Jesus!) and I'm not sure the extended ball joints even come into play, they do raise the roll center.. something that was needed in the sn95, but not so much in the s197s.Thanks for the comments, I'll be doing this soon on project superbeater.

Interested in this. Roughly where is the factory front roll center on a s197 car? And it doesn’t fall through the earth when lowered like on SN95 cars?

 

[blacksheep-1]

Well, introduce yourself to this rabbit hole... here's an example.

Front Roll Center Migration

It's probably a long shot that other people have tried to measure their roll centers and are willing to share, but I'd appreciate any tidbits of knowledge that anybody would like to post. To provide some background, I have a 2011 GT with basically stock suspension. The only change I've made is...

www.s197forum.com

 

[EF1]

The Howe extended ball joints that Watson sells are the service part for the Boss 302 R/S race cars. If they were good enough for them they are more than good enough for me. It doesn't look like Ford Performance is showing any of the complete arms in stock, but as others have said they aren't hard to make. It just takes a pair of stock arms, the ball joints, and threaded collars from Watson. I did this several years ago. I think it is documented in my build thread.

edit: It wasn't in my build thread. It was here.

Front Lower Control Arm Needs Replacing

On the prothanes, the front bushing would deform and fail on the trailing side (typically from under breaking). I put large washers on the rearward bushing to take up the gap and provide some sort of thrust surface for braking forces but that only bought me 20-25% more life out of them. The last...

trackmustangsonline.com

 

[stevbd]

@s9669s I went down this rabbit hole and in my research it seems that although some aftermarket extended ball joints (Howe) are better than others (Steeda x11), they all should be considered regular maintenance items and replaced accordingly. My basic understanding is that due to geometry, any extended ball joint sustains greater torque loads and is more susceptible to breaking.

I guess it depends on your use case but in the end I just went with OEM stock original arms and kept the ride height reasonable. To me, any lap time advantage I might gain due to a slightly raised front roll center would be more than offset by my lingering nervousness about the ball joint breaking. I'm not suggesting the aftermarket ones are dangerous, they aren't. But to a solo hack like me who drives the car year round and on the street, the extra maintenance and attention required of the aftermarket joints just wasn't worth it. If someday I get serious about lowering and want to keep the roll center correct, I would go the MM K-member route as mentioned above.

 

[Swiss Boss]

I looked super hard at these when I had the trouble with the Steeda ones. In the end, I didn't feel any handling change going from the Steeda back to stock length ones. Now I have an MM K member which explicitly says to not use extended ball joints.

DaveW

I have the MM K member too, I asked them before I bought it because I already had the Howe balljoint . I had to convert the tapered stud to a bolt through. No issue.

The biggest advantage of the Howe is stupid easy to replace or do the maintenace on it. Get the 30$ socket to make it even easier.

Now if someone wants to make me a good offer for my whole front suspension setup, that will be my excuse to upgrade to the Cortex SLA

 

[ShifterX]

Well, introduce yourself to this rabbit hole... here's an example.

Front Roll Center Migration

It's probably a long shot that other people have tried to measure their roll centers and are willing to share, but I'd appreciate any tidbits of knowledge that anybody would like to post. To provide some background, I have a 2011 GT with basically stock suspension. The only change I've made is...

www.s197forum.com

Thanks for that. I may just learn from the OP and just move past the theoretical and right into the practical.

Coincidentally it was looking at the MM setup that was driving my interest in front roll center and bumpsteer. I mean how can you drop a car almost 2 inches and not create a bunch of geometry problems? Somehow it manages to work, even for the detail oriented like the op of that thread.