No rear sway bar

[Roadhouse]

I plan on bringing 3 rear bars to The Glen this coming weekend, 18mm (on the car), 25mm Brembo, 27mm Boss LS and try them out to see what lap times are in them.
Has any one else done back to back trials with adjustable or swapping bars? Definitely not swapping front bars.
Should be fun.
Steve

Are you still on the stock bar?

Might as well throw in a session with no bar if you like the 18mm...come to the dark side

 

[steveespo]

I have run the 18mm bar since the end of last season. i like the traction and set I get on corner exit, but want to know if I am giving up lap time or gaining because of it. I don't think I will like no bar with low rate (relatively) springs.
Steve

 

[Roadhouse]

I imagine you're right...forgot about the springs

 

[2013dibgt]

Good post. Have you tried any adjustments on your watts link?

Hello, Yes I initially had the Watts roll center point set to the second set of holes down from the top and felt the back end of the car would rotate too quickly for my liking during initial turn-in in an attempt to try and keep pace with the front of the cars turn in rate. After I dropped the RC point down to its current position (2nd set of holes UP from the bottom) it seems to have relaxed/slowed down that rear end steer/rotation feel to a less aggressive pace.

Its probably pretty safe to say that I am a bit picky about how the ass end of the car feels, maybe more so then many. :-[

 

[2013dibgt]

Where do you have your FSB set at? Can you adjust it to balance your car?

Hello, I currently have my Eibach 3-way adjustable FSB set to the middle hole and do have one more stiffness increment that I can utilize if I wanted to. Before I do that though I want to exhaust all options out back of the car first as I'm a firm believer in trying to fix the end of the car that is "broke" first for lack of a better word. If for some reason after I install the 18mm RSB and the car still feels like there too much oversteer I was going to move up to the front and use the stiffest setting on the Eibach FSB.

The funny thing is, which I didn't realize before I bought the Eibach FSB was that I believe its stiffness rate while using the middle hole is LESS then the factory Brembo FSB. I believe I read that the stiffness rate of the middle hole on the Eibach is 400 lb/in which is 26 lb/in LESS then the factory bar. The stiffest setting is said to be 450 lb/in which is only slightly more.

I guess depending on which school of thought one believes in (Big Bar/Less Spring or Big Spring/Less Bar) having a less stiff bar up front while utilizing the spring rate found on my front dampers (425 lb/in) it doesn't seem as bad as I originally thought. I'm just glad that it at least has one setting that is more then OEM otherwise I could have saved $300 and just skipped it.

 

[blacksheep-1]

Try using the Ford "blue " bar in front on the center setting and the smallest (18mm) or no bar on the rear.. 550 on the front and 285 on the rear pounds pretty reasonable (I can't go into any more detail) what shocks are you guys using?
FWIW our cars have to be bone stock (except for shocks)so you are running more esoteric setups than we can, but I would suggest some shocks that are both bound and rebound adjustable and I want you to look at some pics.....and tell me what you see

 

[WinterSucks]

I have a feeling the less spring, more sway line if thinking would be more for rally than relatively smooth tracks. The more spring, more front sway, and no rear sway seems to be working pretty well for the 302S. Yes I know there are more differences than just that, but none of them are unobtanium.

 

[steveespo]

I see cars planting the rear tires and getting drive off. Thanks for the spring rate advice, will start there when I set up coil overs.
Steve

 

[WinterSucks]

Blacksheep, you guys do use an adjustable pandard and replication brackets in the rear, correct? Do you mean stock suspension geometry?

 

[blacksheep-1]

We have to use an adjustable panhard bar because you can't locate the rear on a lowered car without one. The geometry and brackets are stock (I'm 99% sure we're not allowed relocation brackets but that depends on the last "technical bulletin") They actually photograph the bottom of our cars in tech for comparison.

 

[blacksheep-1]

I have a feeling the less spring, more sway line if thinking would be more for rally than relatively smooth tracks. The more spring, more front sway, and no rear sway seems to be working pretty well for the 302S. Yes I know there are more differences than just that, but none of them are unobtanium.

Back in the 70s Dick Guldstrand liked to tune a suspension by using both the shocks/springs and bars..the Mitchell theory was to use the softest springs to follow the road and max sway bar size to control the car...both have merits.

 

[WorldFamousZ]

I've been following this thread a bit and finally decided to buy one of the 18mm sways from Amazon.
Part came and is the correct 18mm bar.

When I ran the car w/out the rear sway, the entire back half of the car just felt like it was loose and coming apart. I know it wasn't and at the time I wasn't running any upgraded suspension arms out back, so the OEM stuff let the rear end float around alot. So I put the OEM bar back on until the other day.

Now that I have the rear lower and upper arms on the car, the rear feels tighter and I'm more comfortable with the car in general, but the balance was to over steer more than I'd like. Now with the rear bar swapped, the car's handling is more neutral overall. I have yet to take the car on high speed curves but around town I already feel more comfortable with it. It took me a day to really get used to it. The car doesn't feel like it rolls a lot and I don't have that loose and coming apart feeling from the back end like I did w/ no rear bar.

It was a very worthwhile purchase considering the price. I think it's very well worth it if you're a novice on track or just want to really enjoy the car around town. On a track with more experienced hands behind the wheel, I'm sure things would change based on driving style alone / from driver to driver.

so for me, no rear bar = no go, 18mm rear bar = gold

 

[06mach1]

FYI - link to 18 mm sway bar from newtakeoff.com
http://www.newtakeoff.com/mustang_gt_convertible_rear_18mm_anti-sway_bar_2005-2009.aspx

 

[Smilieboy]

I've done whiteline front and rear sway bars. Haven't track tested yet, but it feels solid. Running max stiff up front and second from softest in the back.

 

[Tri-bar]

The setup I'm running right now and works wonders. Koni yellows, new style J&M caster/camber plates. 7.4 caster,1.5 camber. MM road and track springs. Eibach 3 way adjustable front sway bar set on full hard. 18mm rear sway bar. This is for a square tire set up. If staggered, then all I have to do is move the front sway bar to the middle. Very neutral either way. I tried the front in the middle with no rear sway bar (squared tired). The rear just didn't feel right and had a mild push on entry, mid and exit. The rear bar went back on, reset the front and have never looked back.
'

 

[blacksheep-1]

The setup I'm running right now and works wonders. Koni yellows, new style J&M caster/camber plates. 7.4 caster,1.5 camber. MM road and track springs. Eibach 3 way adjustable front sway bar set on full hard. 18mm rear sway bar. This is for a square tire set up. If staggered, then all I have to do is move the front sway bar to the middle. Very neutral either way. I tried the front in the middle with no rear sway bar (squared tired). The rear just didn't feel right and had a mild push on entry, mid and exit. The rear bar went back on, reset the front and have never looked back.
'

OK FWIW just be aware of the trap you've possibly set for yourself, if you remove the rear bar, and it's induced a push on entry, try going to a shock adjustment to get the nose to stick on entry. A lot of guys will have a loose (or push) condition, so they will stick that end of the car, instead , try to unstick the other end instead, if you don't, you can end up with a car that is completely tight.

 

[2013dibgt]

Posting a final followup to my own RSB saga that I've mentioned in a few previous posts.

I ended up removing the 20mm RSB that I received from Newtakeoff and replaced it with the 18mm bar from the same supplier. After some initial testing today at my usual stomping grounds I think I have finally found the ideal setup. This 18mm RSB has removed the remaining slight oversteer feel and slowed down the turn in speed just enough to for me to declare victory.

So in summary, I went from a 24mm RSB to No RSB then to a 20mm RSB and finished it all off with an 18mm bar in the end. I can say its definitely a relief to finally be off the RSB marry go round and now its time to enjoy the fruits of my labor 8)

Its a shame that Ford doesn't offer the 18mm bar on its own in the FRPP catalog because as far as I know the only way to get one of these bars is thru a "takeoff" source of some sort. I guess the good news is that their are lots of Mustangs that came with this bar out in the wild still so I don't think these bars will be extinct any time soon, you just have to be willing to look hard enough to find one.

Can anyone confirm what the rate is of this 18mm bar taken from an 05-09 GT Convertible? I think I saw 95 lb/in somewhere on the web but not sure if that is accurate or not.

Thanks

 

[blacksheep-1]

Posting a final followup to my own RSB saga that I've mentioned in a few previous posts.

I ended up removing the 20mm RSB that I received from Newtakeoff and replaced it with the 18mm bar from the same supplier. After some initial testing today at my usual stomping grounds I think I have finally found the ideal setup. This 18mm RSB has removed the remaining slight oversteer feel and slowed down the turn in speed just enough to for me to declare victory.

So in summary, I went from a 24mm RSB to No RSB then to a 20mm RSB and finished it all off with an 18mm bar in the end. I can say its definitely a relief to finally be off the RSB marry go round and now its time to enjoy the fruits of my labor 8)

Its a shame that Ford doesn't offer the 18mm bar on its own in the FRPP catalog because as far as I know the only way to get one of these bars is thru a "takeoff" source of some sort. I guess the good news is that their are lots of Mustangs that came with this bar out in the wild still so I don't think these bars will be extinct any time soon, you just have to be willing to look hard enough to find one.

Can anyone confirm what the rate is of this 18mm bar taken from an 05-09 GT Convertible? I think I saw 95 lb/in somewhere on the web but not sure if that is accurate or not.

Thanks

Generally speaking a stiffer front (or rear) bar will make that end go loose. If it does not. then I would look someplace else like a shock setting. This is also why you should never rule out completely removing the rear bar as well, there are times when that is a necessary adjustment. Also keep in mind that when you apply one of these adjustments you can also apply it incrementally by adjusting the comp/ rebound in the shock.

 

[2013dibgt]

Generally speaking a stiffer front (or rear) bar will make that end go loose. If it does not. then I would look someplace else like a shock setting. This is also why you should never rule out completely removing the rear bar as well, there are times when that is a necessary adjustment. Also keep in mind that when you apply one of these adjustments you can also apply it incrementally by adjusting the comp/ rebound in the shock.

Thanks for the info. Looking back on this endeavor I think removing my RSB and driving the car in that configuration for quite some time turned out to be excellent learning experience in that it allowed for a better understanding of the cars roll characteristics during various driving situations. In short, I feel I now "know" the car better.

Going forward, now that I have what I feel is the proper RSB on the car I can better utilize the available damper adjustment range I have at my disposal to fine tune for whatever track I find myself on in the future.

One thing is for certain though, I'm very glad I went with dampers that are double adjustable and have a wide range of settings despite the initial pain I felt to my wallet when I first bought them. Now I only wish the dampers were adjustable from the drivers seat but I guess we can't have it all

 

[WinterSucks]

Now I only wish the dampers were adjustable from the drivers seat but I guess we can't have it all

To be honest, I have been thinking about this type of project for a while but there are so many different adjustment interfaces for all the different shocks dampers I am not sure it is practical to try making something for more than just the Koni sports. Good winter project. And an excuse to buy the Yellows sooner.