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Removing the Stock Oil Cooler, what is needed?

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Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Oof. That's what I was worried about with the cooler sizing. Bad news is that's a bit worse than I thought. Under the same conditions with the 948, I'm estimating only a 9* to 12* drop in your pre cooler temp and possibly putting you back into overheat/limp mode conditions with your coolant.

I guess we'll see in about a week.

Was that for 20 minute sessions?
 
Black Boss said:
Ran at the track today with the stock water/oil cooler removed and the 34 row air/oil cooler. Ambient temps were in the mid 80's and a lot of the track is very high rpm.

Coolant peaked at 245 and oil at 295 :( (measured before the cooler). Removing the (opened up) 302S grille dropped water temps by 10+ degrees and oil by 5+ degrees. My conclusion I'd that removing the stock cooler helps a lot with coolant (I went into limp mode with the stock cooler in these condition previously). But for cars that run hot the 48 row cooler may be a better option. I have ordered, a 48 row that was on back order and it shipped today. :)

Will be running the same track in 8 days and will post updates........

It will be interesting to see if a 948 cooler will help with your oil temps as a lot of the cooler is behind the bumper (as is the 934) and out of the main airflow.
 
I was running 20 minute sessions. Had to back off after 15 minutes with the Grille, to stop coolant peaking over 245. No backing off needed without the Grille.

I have the same question on air flow through the 948, although I'm hoping that it will pick up more air from the lower opening, and that combined with the larger size/ capacity should help........
 

drano38

Wayne
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I'm trying to decide which series and size cooler to buy so I can tell 06mach1 where to drill the holes.
I plan to leave the stock oil/water cooler in for now, but would like a big enough Setrab with it removed if I take it out in the future.
A friend with a Cooltech (Setrab 172) in a GT (no Boss oil/water cooler) and a billet grill was on track last weekend in about 80 deg temps, running 245 deg oil at the sandwich plate and 235 deg coolant measured in a block heater plug.
So maybe the Cooltech 172 works well because all if it is directly behind the grill opening for better air flow.
A big 6 series mounted sideways might work well too for a little more cooling. But then a bracket from 06mach1 won't work . . .
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
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06mach1 said:
It will be interesting to see if a 948 cooler will help with your oil temps as a lot of the cooler is behind the bumper (as is the 934) and out of the main airflow.
Mike
A turning vane at the top and bottom of the lower grille opening will help get the air directed up to the oil cooler and radiator matrix'. A good fabricator (hint) might make a set to try out.
Steve
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Black Boss said:
I was running 20 minute sessions. Had to back off after 15 minutes with the Grille, to stop coolant peaking over 245. No backing off needed without the Grille.

I have the same question on air flow through the 948, although I'm hoping that it will pick up more air from the lower opening, and that combined with the larger size/ capacity should help........

You're definitely still 'on the edge' of overheating with the grille off. I'm just hoping that using the air from the lower doesn't contribute to overheating the coolant more. Our lower opening accelerates the air and moves it faster than the car speed. It's also the last and coldest air to cool the radiator. Possibly a reason why Ford Racing has the cooler on the upper side.

drano38 said:
I'm trying to decide which series and size cooler to buy so I can tell 06mach1 where to drill the holes.
I plan to leave the stock oil/water cooler in for now, but would like a big enough Setrab with it removed if I take it out in the future.
A friend with a Cooltech (Setrab 172) in a GT (no Boss oil/water cooler) and a billet grill was on track last weekend in about 80 deg temps, running 245 deg oil at the sandwich plate and 235 deg coolant measured in a block heater plug.
So maybe the Cooltech 172 works well because all if it is directly behind the grill opening for better air flow.
A big 6 series mounted sideways might work well too for a little more cooling. But then a bracket from 06mach1 won't work . . .

I went with the 9 series since the width is better IMO for a vertically mounted cooler. They're also cheaper per BTU/hr rating. The advantage of the 6 or 1 series IMO is the lower pressure drop per BTU/hr, which I don't think is a big deal.

Might be why the 172 works better, but remember that the GT (unless modified) also has piston cooling jets and a lower rev limit. It might be that it's placement only heats the hot side (top) of the radiator and leaves the lower side alone. Does your friend's car have a Boss intake and raised rev limit? Is it a 2011-12 or 13-14?

steveespo said:
Mike
A turning vane at the top and bottom of the lower grille opening will help get the air directed up to the oil cooler and radiator matrix'. A good fabricator (hint) might make a set to try out.
Steve

And the unused mounting points on the cooler make good places to attach. Not sure if the trade off will work but it might be worth it to try.


I'm thinking if I do delete the Boss cooler, that I'm going to two external units in series with the second one on a remote T-stat.
 

drano38

Wayne
1,130
318
Grant 302 said:
Does your friend's car have a Boss intake and raised rev limit? Is it a 2011-12 or 13-14?

He's got an '11 GT, Boss intake, and a tune. Not sure what rev limit he's using, but I'm confident its above 6,500. I know rev limit and shifting rpm have a significant effect on temps.
 
modernbeat said:
The second is solved by removing the water-oil cooler and replacing it with an isolated oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator, but spaced off of it as much as possible. Do not stack them up against each other.

Here's one we did that clears the stock grill and uses existing holes and fasteners.

_DSC3029-M.jpg

So it turns out that fitting the 948 cooler isn't straight forward. Mounting it horizontally, using either the Ford Racing or Mike's mount, causes issues with the hose exit runs fouling the 2 vertical bars in the lower grille. This is compounded in my case as I have the (thicker) 302S Radiator that moves the A/C condenser forward. That's when I realized that with either of these brackets there's no space between there cooler and the condenser.

Since I need to get the car on the trailer tomorrow I didn't have time to figure our an alternative hose run, so I added some spacers to the bracket to move the cooler forward and will try running the 934 cooler with a 3/4" air gap rather than stacked up. Here's the bracket with spacers added:

2014-05-14211700_zps14abd919.png
 
Here's a few pics of the 948 install:

Used spacers at the top on Mike's bracket to get 3/4" air gap between the Cooler and the condenser (only needed with the thicker 302S radiator):

2014-05-14211700_zps14abd919.JPG


IMG_1064Medium_zps415a51c1.JPG

The bracket is pretty solid but the 948 cooler is deep and will move at the bottom without support. Made up some Aluminum brackets:

IMG_1061Medium_zps3b8cd493.JPG

Drilled the back of the Splitter bracket in the 302S bumper bar:

IMG_1062Medium_zpse331b7a2.JPG

I needed to use 90 degree elbows to clear the bottom of the facia, also used -12AN while I was upgrading:


IMG_1065Medium_zps0b42b53d.JPG

Installed lower supprt brackets and nomex mesh:

IMG_1069Medium_zpsfaa61301.JPG


IMG_1072Medium_zpsf01ec17c.JPG
Finished install:

IMG_1073Medium_zps0672bf15.JPG

Cooler extends about an inch into lower facia opening -- hopefully more cooling!
 

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Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Looks good Black Boss. Pretty sure I'd want some nomex over the cooler part that extends to the lower opening.

Good luck on track and looking forward to your results!
 

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Forgot to add:
I thought I was going to be able to torture test my setup (925+Boss cooler) last weekend at Auto Club since we were having 100+ heat the other week, but the highest air temps were only about 84 on track last Sunday. Checking pan, cooler core, and filter temps with the IR gun, I didn't see anything over 220 so it wasn't even breaking a sweat. Lots of traffic so it was hardly a real test.

The week before on the street I did make one test drive keeping the revs in the 5k to 7k range in 105 heat for about a 7 minute drive. Pretty sure it was starting to heat soak as the first temps I took were in the 230s and 240s and when the high speed fans kicked on the underhood heat was unbearable. In under a minute, the fans kicked off and everything went back to the 20x to 21x range.
 
I am getting my car ready for my first track day this year at the Glen and figured I better clear the memory on my oil temp gauge. The high temp read 270, which I didn't think it got that high last year. That would have been the oil temp once the engine oil left the factory oil to water cooler. Hopefully with the 934 cooler I will see 270 (or less!) going into the cooler.
 

576

My 2 cents… Just finished the day at Sonoma. 934 cooler without stock cooler and the Mishi thermostatic plate. Small air duct directing onto the cooler face. Last session with ambient in the low 80's oil temp. was 270-280. Sensor is located at exit of oil cooler. I think if you are tracking a lot, the 934 is not sufficient. I try to do 3-4 days a year. For comparison I plan to remove the whole setup (probably ebay the parts if anyone is interested), reinstall the stock cooler alone with a sandwich plate with ports so I can use temp./ pressure sensors. For my use, I think maybe the whole thing is not necessary. I'll see what kind of temps I get at the next track day.
 
Grant 302 said:
Looks good Black Boss. Pretty sure I'd want some nomex over the cooler part that extends to the lower opening.

Good luck on track and looking forward to your results!

Ran this weekend at Mid Ohio with the 948 and no OEM cooler. Ambient temps in the mid 80's, and 30 minute sessions. Oil peaked at 280 F before the cooler, but backing off for half a lap or short shifting for a lap got it down to 260. Coolant never exceeded 220 F. Think I can live with this, as my guess is post cooler this equates to 250-260F max. Sending in oil samples to get them checked out after 4+ hours of track time this session. If hotter temps prove to be an issue I'll be trying water wetter, and if that doesn't work the A/C and condenser is coming off......
 
When I started this thread I had hoped we'd have a clear and obvious solution. I don't think we're there yet. I also wanted to get my oil cooler installed before Boss Thunder on the Hill for June 8th but that doesn't look like it's going to happen either. So now I'm going to add the 934 to the stock cooler and keep a close eye on the whole setup.

Any recommendations on a sandwich plate that has a port for an oil temp sensor?
 
OK, here is what my results are of removing the stock oil/water cooler and installing a 934 setrab cooler using about 9' of 10AN line. Was at Watkins Glen yesterday. Temps were around 85+. Was not real humid but hot!. Track elevation is 1500 to 1600'. Only a couple of short sections were I get near redline. My peak coolant temp was 228 degrees. My peak oil temp was 274 degrees. This temp was taken at the inlet to the oil cooler. My previous peak oil temps were 270 degrees AFTER the factory oil cooler. I not certain, but I don't recall my coolant temps ever getting over 225 before. Looks like I am good to go at this point with my style of driving. Have another track day at the Glen later this month for more testing.
 

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