The Times They Are A-Charging

[GOT SVT]

PJ if you have the option drive a P85+ for GT500 like acceleration. ;D

I got to drive a P85, I t was a fun test drive

 

[ufnavy06]

Just noticed this thread. My DD is an electric car (Honda Fit EV). While it's not exactly a Tesla, I think it's one of the most comfortable and affordable modes of transportation for driving around town. I would never purchase/lease an EV as my only car, but it' fantastic for the day-to-day grocery getter. What convinced me is lease rebates that I get in central California ($5500 between the state and air board's rebates). They come in a lump sum and I should have them in a few months, meaning I'm paying my lease payments for the next year and half with rebate money. Not a bad gig.



...I'll be "racing" it July 20 at Laguna Seca for the Refuel TT event. Looking for sub 2 minute times! ;D

Don't you have to register it in CA to get those? I feel like because I'm still registered in FL that I wouldn't get those rebates if I were to purchase something like that (not that it's happening).

 

[neema]

Don't you have to register it in CA to get those? I feel like because I'm still registered in FL that I wouldn't get those rebates if I were to purchase something like that (not that it's happening).

They are regional based rebates, so it definitely matters where you live. I live in central California--the state is clearly spending money on incentives here, but it's no surprise as we have notoriously rough air quality.

 

[ufnavy06]

Right. I get all of that, but because I'm military and live in central CA but still register my cars in FL, I'm curious how it works. We're very unlikely to do something like this (save for the Model X, but I doubt that'll be in our price range) because I really don't want to buy a car in CA if I can avoid it.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Here's the latest Tesla S catching on fire. Maybe the batteries aren't as safe as advertised?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1093125_stolen-tesla-police-chase-ends-in-massive-fiery-wreck-splits-model-s-in-half-video

 

[Boss1601]

Read up on flow cell technology. Still a bit far off but offers a lot of packaging and fill up flexibility like gas cars. May end up leap frogging electrics. Just need Elon to back it and we are off!

 

[four-walling]

Here's the latest Tesla S catching on fire. Maybe the batteries aren't as safe as advertised?

...that is why I will not fly a 787...

 

[WinterSucks]

Here's the latest Tesla S catching on fire. Maybe the batteries aren't as safe as advertised?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1093125_stolen-tesla-police-chase-ends-in-massive-fiery-wreck-splits-model-s-in-half-video

That is a pretty bad crash, though. I don't know where the rear of the S went. That makes me wonder more about the construction of the car than the batteries. I would rather die in the crash than be trapped and burnt to death... Leaking batteries are nasty business even if they are not catching fire. Are fire departments prepared for an electrical fire of this scale? Water can make an electrical fire worse and spread whatever corrosives are in the batteries all over the place.

 

[neema]

That is a pretty bad crash, though. I don't know where the rear of the S went.

Into the synagogue nearby

 

[WinterSucks]

Looks like he was driving out like he stole it. :

 

[coboss]

I love how every time an electric car catches on fire, a bunch of "I told you so" comments are rolled out.

Hmmm. Has anyone every seen a gasoline powered car catch on fire in a crash that split the car in half? Hell, I've personally witnessed three car fires in my life just from cars overheating on the highway. I mean cars completely engulfed. I also witnessed a crash where I and another guy had to drag two severely injured passengers out of a Chrysler Imperial to prevent them from being burned to death. I don't recall any hysterical finger pointing at gasoline after that crash.

Here in Colorado, electric cars are everywhere now. Tesla, Leaf, Volt, CMax and Fusion Energi, plug-in Prius. There are a lot of charging stations around, too, including two charging ports where I work.

Electric cars are not new, in fact, had the electrification of the general countryside come 15 years earlier than it did in the early 20th Century, we may never have gone down the gasoline path to begin with.

There is a reason Tesla stock is up 700% in the last two years.

BTW, a Tesla S Performance does 0-60 in under FOUR seconds. I've ridden in one, and it was amazing.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I love how every time an electric car catches on fire, a bunch of "I told you so" comments are rolled out.

Hmmm. Has anyone every seen a gasoline powered car catch on fire in a crash that split the car in half? Hell, I've personally witnessed three car fires in my life just from cars overheating on the highway. I mean cars completely engulfed. I also witnessed a crash where I and another guy had to drag two severely injured passengers out of a Chrysler Imperial to prevent them from being burned to death. I don't recall any hysterical finger pointing at gasoline after that crash.

Here in Colorado, electric cars are everywhere now. Tesla, Leaf, Volt, CMax and Fusion Energi, plug-in Prius. There are a lot of charging stations around, too, including two charging ports where I work.

Electric cars are not new, in fact, had the electrification of the general countryside come 15 years earlier than it did in the early 20th Century, we may never have gone down the gasoline path to begin with.

There is a reason Tesla stock is up 700% in the last two years.

BTW, a Tesla S Performance does 0-60 in under FOUR seconds. I've ridden in one, and it was amazing.

Seriously, who said "I told you so"? Have you read this whole thread?

 

[four-walling]

a Chrysler Imperial

now that is a disturbing image...

 

[coboss]

Seriously, who said "I told you so"? Have you read this whole thread?

Read the comments on any news site in the country that carried the Tesla story. There are a lot of people with an apparently religious opposition to electric or hybrid cars, and a complete lack of any knowledge whatsoever about them. 90% of people don't even know that the Volt has an engine. It's just a commie electric car United Nations plot to take away their Powersmoke pickups.

 

[WinterSucks]

Yes, any car can catch fire. Especially in an insane crash like that. What I don't like about electric cars is that they do nothing to solve any problems, IMO. The batteries are the big reason. The other is already overloaded electrical grids when everyone gets home and blasts the TV and A/C. Now add plugging in their car... Until battery and solar technology advance further to not use nasty chemicals and increase efficiency, I don't feel they should be pushed as the solution. Everyone is so worried about carbon footprints they forget about everything else. If you charge the car off the grid, fine. But that is really not a solution until we get some new solar technology. There are plenty of people working on much better solar cells, but all we can do right now is wait.

I could forgive those problems if the people that buy hybrids/electric cars wouldn't be so holier-than-thou about it. When in actuality my Focus pollutes far less at 40+ mpg, has a lower up-front cost, lower maintenance, no expensive batteries to replace, and plenty of room. These cars (at least right now) are not eco-friendly or economical. If you want to help the environment by reducing air pollution, force China to clean up their power plants.

 

[Fat Boss]

You do know that all the electric and plug-in hybrids have build in timers that allow you to charge during the middle of the night right? Using, you know, excess capacity in the grid at that time? A friend just put in a solar setup and pays no bill to the utility company and his payback is about 6 years. Using today's technology he gives to the grid during the hot afternoon since he doesn't have AC in his house. If he chose to use some juice over night from the grid to charge an electric car he might still not pay an electric bill, I'm not sure how close he is. The technology is there today. No doubt about it.

I bought my plug in Fusion to drive in the carpool lane. There's no question about that. But, I've come to absolutely love the car. It's my first non V8/manual and I don't miss it one bit with the smooth electric power and CVT. It costs me about 70 cents to drive the 26 miles to work for "fuel." And it's a plush mid sized sedan which is important since I'm tall and my friends are tall. I couldn't care less about the emissions, and for reference my juice is made up the street at the local power plant. Coincidentally that natural gas burning plant is the one that was shot at by terrorists. The biggest unsolved act of terrorism on US soil since 9/11.

 

[Grant 302]

There is a reason Tesla stock is up 700% in the last two years.

Actually it's two reasons: Greed and speculation. But I'd say that about any stock that is not currently making money, paying a dividend, and is trading at over 30x book value.

While I am hoping the company succeeds, I'm not entirely convinced it will. For the record, I haven't bought any TSLA since it was in the 30s...

Anyway, I think the fire risk is real and probably the top reason I don't have an electric car in my fleet.

But that is really not a solution until we get some new solar technology. There are plenty of people working on much better solar cells, but all we can do right now is wait.

Are you mainly referring to on-car solar solutions? I don't think there's enough area on a car for continuous run or cloudy day solutions (ever) without batteries. Otherwise, I think Andy is correct about solar being good enough today to effectively charge electric cars.

 

[coboss]

Actually it's two reasons: Greed and speculation. But I'd say that about any stock that is not currently making money, paying a dividend, and is trading at over 30x book value.

While I am hoping the company succeeds, I'm not entirely convinced it will. For the record, I haven't bought any TSLA since it was in the 30s...

Anyway, I think the fire risk is real and probably the top reason I don't have an electric car in my fleet.

Are you mainly referring to on-car solar solutions? I don't think there's enough area on a car for continuous run or cloudy day solutions (ever) without batteries. Otherwise, I think Andy is correct about solar being good enough today to effectively charge electric cars.

There is greed and speculation in all stock, that is what the stock market is after all, a casino.

However, once you understand that Tesla's business model is not merely making electric cars, but totally dominating the electric car infrastructure, I'd say they are going to be around for a long time. The upside is huge.

The fire risk is *more* real in gasoline powered cars than electrics. There is simply way more potential energy in a tank of gasoline than in a bank of batteries.

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Research/NFPA%20reports/Vehicles/osautomobilefires.pdf

During 2006-2010, U.S. fire departments responded
to an average of 152,300 automobile fires per
year, resulting in annual averages of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million (US)
in direct property damage. Table 1 shows that automobiles accounted for two-thirds (68%) of
reported road vehicle fires and 63% of the associated deaths. In addition to automobiles, road vehicle
fires include other types of passenger road vehicles, such as buses, recreational vehicles and
motorcycles, and freight road transport vehicles, such as trucks.
Overall, automobile fires accounted for 10% of all
reported U.S. fires (excluding those handled by
private, state or federal firefighting agencies) and 6% of the associated fire deaths. During this period,
there were 1.4 fire deaths per 1,000 reported automobile fires. With almost 131 million automobiles
registered in the U.S. during 2010, these vehicles are essential to getting people where they need
to go. In most years, more people are killed by
automobile fires than by non-residential structure
fires.

 

[WinterSucks]

Are you mainly referring to on-car solar solutions? I don't think there's enough area on a car for continuous run or cloudy day solutions (ever) without batteries. Otherwise, I think Andy is correct about solar being good enough today to effectively charge electric cars.

Yes, on car with batteries for cloudy days. I do like solar (way more than wind turbines) since it does not generate heat to create the energy and uses sunlight that would otherwise create heat or give me sunburns. Right now they are not efficient enough for that application. I know MIT has been working on a cell orders of magnitude or more better than what we currently have. Maybe they are held up trying to make it practical on a large scale. I am sure we will eventually have what we need. New battery tech is coming along, too. I just hope we can get to a point where we are not trading carbon emissions for toxic waste (not only in the batteries but manufacturing process as well). I feel the toxic waste is much worse. Where I work there is some deadly like TMAH and mostly dangerous non-recyclable chemicals and it bothers me how much waste there is just running demos for customers. I have no idea where it goes, permanent storage or neutralized, but it has to go somewhere and there was a fab that got caught recently allowing it into the water table. Solar cell manufacturing is just like any other semiconductor fab. And they run hundreds of tools per fab.

Fat Boss: I did not know the chargers had schedules, so that is good. But non-peak time or not, if there are too many of them then there will be no off-peak hours. That is what I am trying to get at. Solar works great in the summer, but here in NE the winter kills it. If we had solar cells that were far more efficient that might solve the issue. I don't disagree that it works, just not for everyone yet.

Once some new type of solar cell comes out I will be very excited and start thinking of a design. It would combine two of my hobbies/passions. Three if I include an NES emulator ;D

 

[four-walling]

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Research/NFPA%20reports/Vehicles/osautomobilefires.pdf

A meaningful chart would not include any vehicle made before the 2012 model year, the first year of Tesla.

Filter out the old, dangerous, antiquated crap and then compare the results to a modern EV.