'16 R available

[TMSBOSS]

When GM announces a ZL1 or Z/28 variant, the R's will become available at MSRP. If not sooner.

Not if they don't fix the current issues. If the new car has the same tendency to snap around coming off a turn, the New Z cars will again be sold below MSRP. The You Tube videos of cars snapping around on track likely did more to influence track goers than anything else.
The root cause may be low the end torque the Chevy motor has. Press the loud pedal and torque is there. The ford engine applies power a bit slower on the low end. Tuning may be the cure.

Regardless, I am so impressed with the cars Detroit is producing regardless of the brand.

A great time to be a car enthusiast.

The hard decision now is whether to go modern or classis muscle car. ;D

 

[RCWALP]

Not if they don't fix the current issues. If the new car has the same tendency to snap around coming off a turn, the New Z cars will again be sold below MSRP. The You Tube videos of cars snapping around on track likely did more to influence track goers than anything else.

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/dtb-bGxHdZk

 

[CSL]

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/dtb-bGxHdZk

Pretty typical driver error there. Early apex and then ran out of track. Panicked and tried to over-correct before going off. It happens.....even in cars that understeer.

 

[krt22]

Not sure if he early apexed when he took it as a constant radius turn. Just looks like he got a little too zealous on the exit and pushed out wide.

Either way, I dont see it eating any R sales, especially since they likely will both be supercharged

 

[CSL]

I definitely saw him dive in there early, almost as if there was an intent to double apex that turn, especially when you see how well he hit his marks previously.

Regardless, wholeheartedly agree that won't impact the R.

 

[krt22]

yeah i guess its possible, I always remembered the double apex line being a bit more dramatic with folks swinging out relatively wide. I never liked that line either way because there were always a ton of marbles out there.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Forget whether or not he was late he never got to the apex. Look how far he is off the apex cone. The cone is in the correct position. His excuse was it was hot and his right rear tire hit the white paint and lost traction. . He's also an SCCA instructor but it was his second day in the car. Fortunately there was not much damage and he drove it home.

 

[fuhrius]

Pretty typical driver error there. Early apex and then ran out of track. Panicked and tried to over-correct before going off. It happens.....even in cars that understeer.

a) I like you slow hands. good sign.
b) when I started the video, I was wondering...you know, t-shirt and all...but I got over that...you acan drive.
c) Apex is not an absolute but a relative concept. I wouldn't say he apex'd early but, rather, didn't unwind / get back to throttle in the right ratio. Not enough unwind / too much throttle too early.
I'm not sure I buy the 'snap oversteer' criticism on those cars...I see a lot of 'antsy' driving going on...drivers that think that since they're in a Z28, they can just power out and let the care take car of it.

 

[VoodooBoss]

It got to 108 that day so forgive the t shirt.

 

[coboss]

You guys are focusing on the 2014 Z/28, but the next Z/28 will be based on the 2016 Camaro, which is a 100% new chassis and 80% new drivetrain. The 2016 SS is already faster than the Boss LS around a track, and is within 0.1 sec 0-60 and 1/4 mile of a GT350. The rumor is that the Z/28 version will get the 650HP Corvette Z06 engine. Or maybe that will be a ZL1 version to compete with the GT500 if it ever appears? Anyway, the new SS is real, and is definitely a good base for the challenge, since it is now lighter than the Mustang. There is also the rumor of a 1LE Camaro so the line up could match up with Mustang directly: Mustang GT->Camaro SS, GT350->1LE, GT350R->Z/28, GT500->ZL1.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2016-ford-mustang-gt/

 

[krt22]

Many interested in the R could just have easily bought the lighter c7 z51 or z06 Vette with the same driveline and less weight. It won't matter how fast the latest and greatest Camaro will be, I just don't see it eating into R demand, the R is simply going after a different segment of the market.

 

[Tob]

Unless the upcoming top dog Camaro were to go after the same "different segment" as well...

 

[coboss]

Many interested in the R could just have easily bought the lighter c7 z51 or z06 Vette with the same driveline and less weight. It won't matter how fast the latest and greatest Camaro will be, I just don't see it eating into R demand, the R is simply going after a different segment of the market.

The 2014-15 Z/28 *defined* the market that the 350R is now filling. The Z/28 was a low production 100% track focused car with the biggest front tires ever put on a production car, a dry sump naturally aspirated V8 that was in no other Camaro, radical weight loss surgery, and a completely unique suspension. It roasted the Boss 302 Laguna Seca in every track test ever. The Z/28 was the benchmark for the 350R, and the 350R is now the benchmark for the next Z/28. They are targeting the exact same market segment which is why the first thing Motor Trend did was run a comparison between the 2015 Z/28 and the 2016 GT350R.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-chevrolet-camaro-z28-vs-2016-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang/

 

[krt22]

The 2014-15 Z/28 *defined* the market that the 350R is now filling. The Z/28 was a low production 100% track focused car with the biggest front tires ever put on a production car, a dry sump naturally aspirated V8 that was in no other Camaro, radical weight loss surgery, and a completely unique suspension. It roasted the Boss 302 Laguna Seca in every track test ever. The Z/28 was the benchmark for the 350R, and the 350R is now the benchmark for the next Z/28. They are targeting the exact same market segment which is why the first thing Motor Trend did was run a comparison between the 2015 Z/28 and the 2016 GT350R.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-chevrolet-camaro-z28-vs-2016-ford-shelby-gt350r-mustang/

And it didnt sell very well (can get them 25k off sticker now) and didnt attract nearly as many cross shoppers from the p-car/bmw type crowd. As for the Z28 being the bench mark, it was at first, until ford realized there were bigger fish in the pond to go after (its been well documented the 911 GT3 became the new bench mark)

It would be cool if they did come out with another NA V8, but I have not heard any news of a new 500+ hp NA chevy motor. If they end up slapping the LT4 or some other super charged variant in them, just wont compare to the R (or the GT350 for that matter), regardless of what magazine times they end up putting down

 

[coboss]

As likely as the Z06 engine or an N/A V8 in a new Z/28 would be a pumped version of the ATS-V 3.6L V6 Twin Turbo that already puts out 464 HP. Then they could put the Z06 engine in a ZL1.

My guess is that they will go with the 3.6L. It is an astonishing 200lb lighter than the 6.2L in the SS. A Z/28 with the 3.6L and the usual lightening tricks like the 350R has would come in around 3400 pounds, over 250 pounds lighter than the 350R, and it wouldn't need CF wheels to get there. With a small power increase from the 464 in the ATS-V to 475 in the Z/28, the pounds to horsepower rating of the Z/28 would be almost identical to the GT350R and it has more torque at a lower RPM. No gas guzzler tax, either. Chevy has a racing version of this engine that puts out 600HP with the stock block/crank/connecting rods.

The 2016 ATS-V did the Car and Driver lightning lap over three seconds faster than the Laguna Seca, and a Camaro with the same engine would be 300 pounds lighter. Let's face it, the CAFE regs are looming, and being able to save a few corporate MPGs is significant. GM can still have a ZL1 for the horsepower crowd.

2017 is the 50th Anniversary of the Camaro, so it seems likely *something* will be announced soon.

 

[krt22]

If they really put a TT six in the z28 then r demand will continue to persist, perhaps even increase. It won't matter what times it puts down, many of the R buyers simply would not be interested in it based on the power plant alone, it's about a whole lot more than magazine lap times. A one of a kind American FPC v8 has peaked interest with the purists, a TT 6cyl not so much. The fact that ford was able to pull this motor off with the current cafe standards is one of the things that makes it so special and is driving this demand.

Time will tell, but I'm not anticipating plentiful msrp Rs anytime soon( if at all)

 

[coboss]

If they really put a TT six in the z28 then r demand will continue to persist, perhaps even increase. It won't matter what times it puts down, many of the R buyers simply would not be interested in it based on the power plant alone, it's about a whole lot more than magazine lap times. A one of a kind American FPC v8 has peaked interest with the purists, a TT 6cyl not so much. The fact that ford was able to pull this motor off with the current cafe standards is one of the things that makes it so special and is driving this demand.

Time will tell, but I'm not anticipating plentiful msrp Rs anytime soon( if at all)

I disagree and here is why: Gen X/Millenials. They love turbo'ed cars. GM leaves their ECU's open, and having a car that already starts at 475HP that can be bumped to 560+ with just a tune makes them salivate. They really don't care if it makes the car a grenade. There are already people getting an extra 87HP and 90lb/ft on pump gas with this engine with nothing more than a tune. Once they figure out meth injection and 100 octane maps and intake/exhaust mods they'll be approaching 600HP on the stock internals, which BTW on that engine are very stout, including titanium connecting rods.

I like N/A engines, too, but that ship has sailed. Virtually every manufacturer is now going turbo/SC for their top performance cars, including Ford (look at the new GT).

I'd like to see a stat on the average age of GT350/350R buyers vs. Nissan GT-R/Subaru STi/Audi S4/BMW M4. I know the Boss was almost 50yo and I'm guessing the GT350/350R is not much different. A Z/28 with the TT 3.6L would definitely have a lower age skew, and GM will still build the ZL1 with the Z06 engine for the V8 die hards, and the 1LE version of the SS with the 6.2L N/A should match the standard GT350 .

I predict that by the 2018 model year you'll be able to get a 350R at MSRP. There were Boss LS models at MSRP by the end of production, there were GT500's at MSRP, the 2015 Z/28 is an awesome car that started out with 20K ADM and is now $20K under sticker. Z06 'Vette, same story. The demand for $65K+ track monsters is not as deep as some people think, especially when there are so many worthy competitors and the market is changing so rapidly.

 

[krt22]

Agree to disagree.

Back on topic, I believe the R in this first post was actually bought at 15k over, and now is listed here.

http://www.motorcarsofgeorgia.com/used/Ford/2016-Ford-Mustang-atlanta-7ce011b70a0e0a170a2315f89bcd9e84.htm

 

[TymeSlayer]

I disagree and here is why: Gen X/Millenials. They love turbo'ed cars. GM leaves their ECU's open, and having a car that already starts at 475HP that can be bumped to 560+ with just a tune makes them salivate. They really don't care if it makes the car a grenade. There are already people getting an extra 87HP and 90lb/ft on pump gas with this engine with nothing more than a tune. Once they figure out meth injection and 100 octane maps and intake/exhaust mods they'll be approaching 600HP on the stock internals, which BTW on that engine are very stout, including titanium connecting rods.

I like N/A engines, too, but that ship has sailed. Virtually every manufacturer is now going turbo/SC for their top performance cars, including Ford (look at the new GT).


I'd like to see a stat on the average age of GT350/350R buyers vs. Nissan GT-R/Subaru STi/Audi S4/BMW M4. I know the Boss was almost 50yo and I'm guessing the GT350/350R is not much different. A Z/28 with the TT 3.6L would definitely have a lower age skew, and GM will still build the ZL1 with the Z06 engine for the V8 die hards, and the 1LE version of the SS with the 6.2L N/A should match the standard GT350 .

I predict that by the 2018 model year you'll be able to get a 350R at MSRP. There were Boss LS models at MSRP by the end of production, there were GT500's at MSRP, the 2015 Z/28 is an awesome car that started out with 20K ADM and is now $20K under sticker. Z06 'Vette, same story. The demand for $65K+ track monsters is not as deep as some people think, especially when there are so many worthy competitors and the market is changing so rapidly.

Just because everyone else is jumping off the bridge doesn't mean I have to. (My mama taught me that!)

 

[TMSBOSS]

An R at $175K or $1294 a month for 144 short months. I doubt this was bought to move off the lot quickly. LOL

They will likely use the car as a showroom draw, race it, sell it later at a reduced price or keep it in their collection.

One thing for sure......That R is a beautiful car!!!

And just think....I was only 4 numbers short on the power ball from making that beauty mine!!! ;D

My theory on the Z-28 sales drop is, the number of viable track cars within that brand make the Camaro less appealing to Bowtie buyers. The FGT will not have the same effect on GT-350 buyers