The Pope just called. You're officially excommunicated !!! ;D
Happy New Year !!!
Happy New Year !!!
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Since you already have the Saleen I'd use it for the track and not mess with any other grill.drano38 said:I've got the Saleen grill sitting in an un-opened box in the basement that I bought for the GT but didn't install it. Its very open so should increase airflow, but we lose the Boss look.
PeteInCT said:I went with the 302S grille with the far left ans right sides also cut out. I like the original look and will give up 1 or 2 CFM by keeping the pony emblem ;D Personally, I'm not a big fan of the full billet look. My assumption is that the differneces between all of these 'high airflow' grills will be minimal. I agree that the vented hood is a logical next step, albeit a big ticket item. Since I only run HPDE's and will start some TT's this season I don't need the additional '4 seconds', she's more than quick enough for me. My next step will be the oil cooler when FRPP makes it available. If for some reason that isn't enough I'll probably choose the 302R radiator as a final step.
5 DOT 0 said:Since you already have the Saleen I'd use it for the track and not mess with any other grill.
Do you have any pics of this Scott? ;D I'm not sure what foam you are talking about by the intake. Do you mean the black foam over the coil covers?2012YellowBoss said:and removing the foam covers from the intake, I am down 20-28 degrees.That is about the same Mark told me taking the foam off the engine would help but a much cheaper mod.
cloud9 said:Do you have any pics of this Scott? ;D I'm not sure what foam you are talking about by the intake. Do you mean the black foam over the coil covers?
What's the purpose of the foam? NVH reduction? Mark said it will help with cooling if you remove them? How is that, do they act as insulation trapping heat in the engine?2012YellowBoss said:Pulling the blue coil cover would not hurt either I am guessing. I may do it just to see next summer, they are only for looks anyway. I have not because I was told it would not help with cooling, however I think the sum of several thing may make a difference.
You should experiment for us then. Buy the hood and run the stock grill and see how that works.cf6mech said:Im with Smitty.....dont think there is much to gain on the grill mods....how fast and easily the air flows through the radiator (i.e.vented hood) .....not just to it....is going to give you the most gains.
Just one question for you then. How do you explain the 25 degree drop in ECT (CHT) by simply removing the factory grille? Several of us with temp gauges have done this and all have had the same results.cf6mech said:Im with Smitty.....dont think there is much to gain on the grill mods....how fast and easily the air flows through the radiator (i.e.vented hood) .....not just to it....is going to give you the most gains.
Altitude has definitely been shown to impact it. The MMP cars and our friends in CO are having the biggest issues. I have more trouble at MPH and MAM (1650 ft) than I do at BIR (1100 ft) in the same ambient temps. Driving style is also a huge factor. Guys that are out pushing, but not to the edge are not having as much of an issue as guys that drive with their hair on fire (like me) trying to improve their best lap time by another tenth.steveespo said:Guys
I am really puzzled about the overheating issues on the Boss cars. Scott are you at high altitude? As you know my Coyote based clone car runs all boss intake and oil/water cooling system, Boss grille with the Gary mod, Steeda CAI, Brenspeed 93 octane tune and now ARH full length headers with catted x pipe. Haven't dyno'd with headers but before in June car made 407 rwhp and 359 ft lbs torque. I told Ron (Roketman) at Lime Rock that removing the foam injector/intake valley covers would help cooling as they are there so you don't hear injector tick and piston slap etc.
Ron said he wasn't having heating trouble and didn't think it would help, I disagree as airflow and just radiated heat from the center valley has to help cooling at least a little. I ran 7 HPDE this season with ambient temps running from 50 degrees in April to 92 degrees in July and my car never ran hotter than 214 degrees (Watkins Glen July). I am usually at 195 on track, run Motorcraft coolant, Mocool water additive from Motul, Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Formula oil and a 7400 rpm redline. My temps are sourced from an Auto Meter Ultra lite gauge with tell tale with the sender mounted in the drivers side front freeze plug, consider it very accurate. Has anyone gotten any feedback from Ford about why the Road Runner runs so hot other than grille restriction. It seems that Ford has tried to address this on the '13 with the ugly Shelby nose and the nice hood vents. We know Gary has the S hood on, I also will have mine on for next season looking for downforce more than cooling but getting that hot air through the engine bay up and out has to help radiator efficiency. Also Kendall and the cooltech team are hopefully still working on the air to air oil cooler system that may help take some load off of the water system. Sorry to be long winded but these technical problems really interest me and I hate that you guys are having this issue.
Steve
Just as an aside that I thought of, the Track key programming is said to really lean out A/F ratios at higher rpm, don't know if that is rumor or backed up by wide band O2 data but my Coyote likes to be fat up top 12.3:1 or so. Lean mixtures at high rpm is a recipe for high cylinder head temps, detonation and ring/piston damage.
Steve
BLAZN BOSS said:I can't contribute on the cooling problem cause i don't track my car but you stated something that i question. The foam quiets "piston slap"?..........Is that what you really ment to say?............
I agree on preferring the Boss grille "look" which is why I kept the 302S grille and added the Tiger Hood to hopefully solve the problem. The Roush billet grille has been proven to work as effectively as removing the grille completely as proven by my friend in his 5.0 and Drew (ArizonaGT) in his Boss. For whatever reason, it flows better than the Boss grille with the larger plastic bars even with more room between them than the billet.steveespo said:Gary,
You are right about the grille, I can't argue that but personally I really love the Boss grille look and hate to see us have to butcher the car to solve this. (The Roush guys do run their grille on the Grand Am car though right?) As far as air/fuel ratio with TK, I saw a post on TMS forum referencing leaner mixture than with black key. May or may not be true, your dyno graph is the best info for your tuning. Altitude definitely has an impact, my high altitude track was Monticello Motor Park at 900 ft., it was in October and was 65 degrees so no doomsday scenario there.
Per my last post do you know where Ford picks up coolant temp from? Also the coolant flow direction in the engine? I think 5.0 magazine had a cutaway with blue to orange to red arrows showing the flow in the article they did on the 5.0 and Boss engines, will look for it.
I like you push hard every lap, although I am running PZeros vs your Hoosiers so you probably carry a little more RPM a little longer each lap, but I don't know how much that would impact it.
The long tubes should have a positive cooling effect as they do get the gases out faster and they have more surface area to radiate the heat away from the heads, also even though catted, the cats are 14" farther away from the engine which has to help. I haven't tracked the car with them yet since I just finished them 2 weeks ago but will report dyno and peak speed changes from my last year events.
Steve
Thanks Steve. I don't want to overplay this issue. I ran 18 track days last year in the Boss, and since on the worst days I could pull my grille and keep running, it wasn't a show stopper. I have been nothing but blown away by what Ford gave us and you made a really good point that it's something us track rats only encounter because we're pushing the car to the limit. I am 99% confident the hood is going to give me the extra little bit of cooling help to make this a non-issue for me. It's not like I'm that far from having it solved. It's really just at the edge of being a problem.steveespo said:Thanks Gary
I was mistaken about the TK programming leaning the car out, it richens the mixture. See this post by 06 GT; http://forums.themustangsource.com/f813/black-key-vs-trackey-dyno-comparison-501949/
I do have my coolant gauge in the freeze plug location that ford uses for the block heater tracks pretty true to the display given when you set the info screen into engineering mode, +/- 3 degrees.
Hopefully you will solve the issue and enjoy the season.
Steve