The Mustang Forum for Track & Racing Enthusiasts

Taking your Mustang to an open track/HPDE event for the first time? Do you race competitively? This forum is for you! Log in to remove most ads.

  • Welcome to the Ford Mustang forum built for owners of the Mustang GT350, BOSS 302, GT500, and all other S550, S197, SN95, Fox Body and older Mustangs set up for open track days, road racing, and/or autocross. Join our forum, interact with others, share your build, and help us strengthen this community!

S197 @4o6racing Build Thread Profile - S197 Mustangs

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

539
687
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
3-5 Years
SoCal
View attachment 91681

With all the point and shoot corners I think I’d call it:
”Shotgun.”

Personally, Id rather see more sweepers and let the cars roll…..all these “brake waster” turns are a pain in the wallet. Why burn up tires and brakes just to go slow? Let them go I say……but, I noticed that nobody’s asking me so….

Regardless, I’m glad to see this moving forward.
I would like to try it out, maybe I’ll see some of your shining faces next year.
I agree. It looks like a lot of straight line, hard brake, sharp turn, repeat.
Obviously driving the new track will tell a different story but at this point, the OG track looks much more fun.
 
304
381
CA
View attachment 91681

With all the point and shoot corners I think I’d call it:
”Shotgun.”

Personally, Id rather see more sweepers and let the cars roll…..all these “brake waster” turns are a pain in the wallet. Why burn up tires and brakes just to go slow? Let them go I say……but, I noticed that nobody’s asking me so….

Regardless, I’m glad to see this moving forward.
I would like to try it out, maybe I’ll see some of your shining faces next year.
I think if the corners have heavy banking and wide curbs so you can carry lots of speed, this track has some great potential for lower HP cars (miatas, brz's, etc.). But for HP dominated cars, I agree the track does not appear to have much flow or momentum. For once maybe I will actually enjoy the lack of power in my car?!?! 😂

Between the Laguna repave, new BRP track and the Sonoma repave coming in January, it absolutely warms my heart to see this much support for tracks in CA when we hear so many stories about tracks closing down.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I think if the corners have heavy banking and wide curbs so you can carry lots of speed, this track has some great potential for lower HP cars (miatas, brz's, etc.). But for HP dominated cars, I agree the track does not appear to have much flow or momentum. For once maybe I will actually enjoy the lack of power in my car?!?! 😂

Between the Laguna repave, new BRP track and the Sonoma repave coming in January, it absolutely warms my heart to see this much support for tracks in CA when we hear so many stories about tracks closing down.
I don't know why people think point and shoot tracks are good for low power cars, I would think they would suffer most from the start/stop nature of these tracks.
Low power cars are momentum cars, so I would think that tracks that flow better (ergo maintain momentum) would be where they would shine most.
High power cars accelerate much faster and could deal with the point and shoot.....
BUT.....that my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong here.
 
304
381
CA
I don't know why people think point and shoot tracks are good for low power cars, I would think they would suffer most from the start/stop nature of these tracks.
Low power cars are momentum cars, so I would think that tracks that flow better (ergo maintain momentum) would be where they would shine most.
High power cars accelerate much faster and could deal with the point and shoot.....
BUT.....that my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong here.
I agree, I was commenting on the assumption that a low hp car would have a less severe speed delta on a point and shoot track vs. a high horsepower car

IE a miata hitting 95mph down the front straight and only having to slow down to 85mph for T1, that's essentially a dab of the brakes and a lift, 10mph delta. From the drivers seat, very momentum-y.

Vs. a mustang hitting 125mph down the front straight and then having to slow down to 80mph. That is a speed delta of 45mph, which could give the feeling of "killing" your momentum from the drivers seat. And this new BRP track it looks like you'll have to do that for nearly every turn.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
I agree, I was commenting on the assumption that a low hp car would have a less severe speed delta on a point and shoot track vs. a high horsepower car

IE a miata hitting 95mph down the front straight and only having to slow down to 85mph for T1, that's essentially a dab of the brakes and a lift, 10mph delta. From the drivers seat, very momentum-y.

Vs. a mustang hitting 125mph down the front straight and then having to slow down to 80mph. That is a speed delta of 45mph, which could give the feeling of "killing" your momentum from the drivers seat. And this new BRP track it looks like you'll have to do that for nearly every turn.
I was making a general statement about these types of tracks....I frequently hear how low power cars are momentum cars but then why would you want to kill that momentum?
Probably something I don't understand about this because I've heard that over and over and it just doesn't make sense to me.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Okay here's my frame of reference:
My first ever stockcar had gears that were way to tall and a cam that was way to big.
It didn't pull at all off the corners but just as you were ready to shut down for the corner it would start pulling like a banshee.
Now as long as I had free track in front of me I was as fast as anyone and faster than most, but as soon as someone got in my way it would take me 3 laps to get back up to speed.
This is how I imagine a Miata is on tracks with long straights and super tight corners.
 
304
381
CA
I was making a general statement about these types of tracks....I frequently hear how low power cars are momentum cars but then why would you want to kill that momentum?
Probably something I don't understand about this because I've heard that over and over and it just doesn't make sense to me.
Less momentum has to be killed because they don't need to slow down as much is how I (perhaps wrongly) interpret it

They were going slower in the first place on straight
AND they are light and nimble so have high cornering speeds

T1 at Thunderhill for example; my top speed on the main straight is ~118mph. My min speed for T1 is 90.1mph.

A spec miata hits about 105mph on the front straight and slows to ~90mph for T1.

I had to lose 28mph while the spec miata had to only lose 15mph. From a drivers seat perspective, losing 28mph feels like more of a momentum loss than 15mph. IDK if it actually is, and I'm not a wheel to wheel guy, so can only comment from what I "feel".


Okay here's my frame of reference:
My first ever stockcar had gears that were way to tall and a cam that was way to big.
It didn't pull at all off the corners but just as you were ready to shut down for the corner it would start pulling like a banshee.
Now as long as I had free track in front of me I was as fast as anyone and faster than most, but as soon as someone got in my way it would take me 3 laps to get back up to speed.
This is how I imagine a Miata is on tracks with long straights and super tight corners.
absolutely, 100% agree. A slow car getting in the way of your corner leads to so much time lost when you are in a slow car like that!
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Less momentum has to be killed because they don't need to slow down as much is how I (perhaps wrongly) interpret it

They were going slower in the first place on straight
AND they are light and nimble so have high cornering speeds

T1 at Thunderhill for example; my top speed on the main straight is ~118mph. My min speed for T1 is 90.1mph.

A spec miata hits about 105mph on the front straight and slows to ~90mph for T1.

I had to lose 28mph while the spec miata had to only lose 15mph. From a drivers seat perspective, losing 28mph feels like more of a momentum loss than 15mph. IDK if it actually is, and I'm not a wheel to wheel guy, so can only comment from what I "feel".



absolutely, 100% agree. A slow car getting in the way of your corner leads to so much time lost when you are in a slow car like that!
Okay, now this is where I say something that will get me into trouble....but this is my personal experience:
For all the talk I hear about how much faster Miata's are in the corners than a big old mustang, I have yet to be passed by one.
They are like the bumpers in pinball, always in the way. At no time, at any track in any corner, in my experience has it ever been close.
But, that is just my experience. Your mileage my vary.
 

Dave_W

Cones - not just for ice cream
1,002
1,307
Exp. Type
Autocross
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Connecticut
But you're a very good driver in a very well-developed car. I think "off the street" in an HPDE-style event is where you see more of the "fast in the corners" Miata / BRZ86 vs "quick on the straight" Mustang / Corvette paradigm.

I also think it's somewhat of an optical illusion for a chasing Miata, as increasing velocity means increased distance for the same time gap. It appears the Mustang is pulling away down the straight and the Miata is catching up under braking & in the corner, but if you put a stopwatch on it the actual time gap might be the same all the time. Or at least less than the change in distance makes it appear.
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
But you're a very good driver in a very well-developed car. I think "off the street" in an HPDE-style event is where you see more of the "fast in the corners" Miata / BRZ86 vs "quick on the straight" Mustang / Corvette paradigm.

I also think it's somewhat of an optical illusion for a chasing Miata, as increasing velocity means increased distance for the same time gap. It appears the Mustang is pulling away down the straight and the Miata is catching up under braking & in the corner, but if you put a stopwatch on it the actual time gap might be the same all the time. Or at least less than the change in distance makes it appear.
It was the same for me when my car was still wearing skinny tires and license plates. Again, just my experience. Probably not the best example….
 
Last edited:
435
581
Exp. Type
HPDE
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
Wisconsin
Okay, now this is where I say something that will get me into trouble....but this is my personal experience:
For all the talk I hear about how much faster Miata's are in the corners than a big old mustang, I have yet to be passed by one.
They are like the bumpers in pinball, always in the way. At no time, at any track in any corner, in my experience has it ever been close.
But, that is just my experience. Your mileage my vary.
I could get into trouble myself here so I’ll leave it to say that they are pesky mosquitoes at times.
 

Bill Pemberton

0ld Ford Automotive Racing Terror
8,496
8,493
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Blair, Nebraska
Funny thing is Miatas are a lot like Mustangs, because many drivers of Porsches, Corvettes, etc. are fairly surprised when a Mustang blows by them on track, and there are plenty of folks surprised when a Miata does the same. Depending on tune and model of Miata ( Pro Spec Miata, ITA or other modified Class ) there are some that will chase down some seriously quick cars, though their strength is shown more strongly on twisty, shorter courses.

Great track machine and many folks who have raced them are now in Mustangs or other cars and the skill learned from driving a sensitive momentum track machine translates to making drivers who have solid power much more adept, imho.

Both cars are tossable, love sweepers and stop well enough to shock many other drivers --especially the newer cars of the last decades with their large rotors.

I have loved both, and considering I have had 8 Mustangs and 7 Miatas, I guess I put my money where my mouth is --- all were tracked or autocrossed with some being pure racecars!
 

Fabman

Dances with Racecars
6,553
8,204
Exp. Type
W2W Racing
Exp. Level
20+ Years
Pleasanton: 1/2 way between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
But you're a very good driver in a very well-developed car.
That's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me in a long time.
Thank you.
 
1,179
2,176
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Any pics of this installed yet? It looks great!
I’ll get some better pics this weekend at the track. Here’s a close up of the side fences and tire spats.

IMG_8817.jpeg
 
1,179
2,176
Exp. Type
Time Attack
Exp. Level
5-10 Years
SoCal
Wow, that's pretty thick! How much does it weigh?
It’s 1/2” resin filled birch. Not sure on the weight. Definitely heavier than the Alumalite versions I was running previously, but way more rigid and effective.
 

TMO Supporting Vendors

Buy TMO Apparel

Buy TMO Apparel
Top