anyone have the timing procedure for the 5.2 XS/FP350S

[honeybadger]

Getting ready to assemble the refreshed motor but I only have the timing procedure for Voodoo crank. Thanks!

 

[bauern]

Here you go. First step got cut off. It is to rotate crankshaft clockwise until the keyway is at 5 o'clock position.

 

[honeybadger]

Here you go. First step got cut off. It is to rotate crankshaft clockwise until the keyway is at 5 o'clock position.

So first off, wanted to say thanks for getting this over to me.

Second, wanted to start a broader convo. So to recap, I using a Voodoo motor being converted over to CPC. It uses a predator crank (part # KR3Z-6303-B) and CPC-version of voodoo cams from L&M engine cams (https://lmengines.com/collections/gt350-camshafts/products/gt350-voodoo-w-90-deg-cross-plane-crank)

All other parts are original equipment voodoo (GT350R phasers, followers, lifters, timing chains, tensioners, etc.). When i went to time the motor using the instructions above - there was clear piston to valve contact and the motor would not full turnover (at least without a tremendous amount of pressure).

Someone on instagram recommended I try the original voodoo timing - so I followed that to a tee and sure enough it worked. Engine turns over easy, no contact, etc. I'm perplexed. only thing I can think of is where the keyways on the phasers/cams are is identical to the voodoo cams. But open to feedback

 

[bauern]

The cam/phaser keyways are the same for both FPC and CPC, remember the Voodoo originally came with coyote phasers.
Is it possible they sent you the wrong cams? Rotate the engine over and follow the intake valve opening sequence or compression stroke sequence to check the firing order. CP is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2.

 

[JAJ]

The cam/phaser keyways are the same for both FPC and CPC, remember the Voodoo originally came with coyote phasers.
Is it possible they sent you the wrong cams? Rotate the engine over and follow the intake valve opening sequence or compression stroke sequence to check the firing order. CP is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2.

And here I was, wondering if the engine would only run if it was turning backwards...

 

[honeybadger]

okay, so am I a super dunce/losing my mind? also possible I completely don't understand engines - at this point I'm not sure this isn't a dream. appreciate the help - I'm a hands on learner and need some commentary/explaination on what I am looking at in my garage.

5.2 CPC timing

youtube.com

 

[Stan Whitney]

Maybe the cut the keyways in the cams correctly to allow for this type of conversion scenario. So that all you had to do was swap cranks? That would seem too easy.

 

[bauern]

okay, so am I a super dunce/losing my mind? also possible I completely don't understand engines - at this point I'm not sure this isn't a dream. appreciate the help - I'm a hands on learner and need some commentary/explaination on what I am looking at in my garage.

5.2 CPC timing

youtube.com

You're not loosing your mind, those Intake valve events are correct. However, 1-5-4-8 is the same for both FPC and CPC, it's the last 4 that are different. The FPC continues 3-7-2-6 vs. 6-3-7-2 for the CPC.

After #8, it's either #3 or #6 intake that is opening.
Looking at your video, I'd say you have CPC cams.

 

[honeybadger]

video showing 6 and 3. It looks like everything is correct to me.

Only thing I can think of is the keyways on the cams like Stan mentioned.

one thing I need to verify - so firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 as @bauern mentioned. So to verify that the exhaust/intake valves are opening in the right order in relation to the firing order, so if I chase finding TDC for each of those cylinders in that order, the intake valve will have just finished its cycle of opening, correct? Because chasing the TDC for each cylinder in the firing order is completing two full rotations of the crank, correct?

 

[bauern]

video showing 6 and 3. It looks like everything is correct to me.

Only thing I can think of is the keyways on the cams like Stan mentioned.

one thing I need to verify - so firing order is 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 as @bauern mentioned. So to verify that the exhaust/intake valves are opening in the right order in relation to the firing order, so if I chase finding TDC for each of those cylinders in that order, the intake valve will have just finished its cycle of opening, correct? Because chasing the TDC for each cylinder in the firing order is completing two full rotations of the crank, correct?

I can't see that the cam keyways would be changed, L&M would have to supply special instructions with their cams if so. You'll have to contact them to check.
Yes it will take 2 full crank rotations and you can chase the firing order that way but I wouldn't try to confirm valve opening events and TDC that way.

 

[honeybadger]

I can't see that the cam keyways would be changed, L&M would have to supply special instructions with their cams if so. You'll have to contact them to check.
Yes it will take 2 full crank rotations and you can chase the firing order that way but I wouldn't try to confirm valve opening events and TDC that way.

Do you have a recommendation on how to confirm valve opening events?

 

[bauern]

Degree wheel and dial indicator.
If I was in your position, and I was, I would take the timing parts off - chains, phasers, cams - and redo it.

I was in the process of changing the oil pump on the Voodoo engine but mixed up the coyote and voodoo instructions. When I removed the Driver side chains the cams rotated out of position because of spring pressure. Tried to put them back in position and reassembled everything. Hard starting, ran like shiznit, wouldn't idle and threw codes. Was frustrated but only real solution was to remove everything and start from scratch.

 

[honeybadger]

Degree wheel and dial indicator.
If I was in your position, and I was, I would take the timing parts off - chains, phasers, cams - and redo it.

I was in the process of changing the oil pump on the Voodoo engine but mixed up the coyote and voodoo instructions. When I removed the Driver side chains the cams rotated out of position because of spring pressure. Tried to put them back in position and reassembled everything. Hard starting, ran like shiznit, wouldn't idle and threw codes. Was frustrated but only real solution was to remove everything and start from scratch.

Oh - I timed it like 4 times.I tried the way you provided up above 3 times the first night and came back a day later and re-did it. Got it fully assembled and didn't like the way it would spin. You could feel piston to valve contact and see that it was trying to open valves with pistons moving up.

In a moment of desperation, I took it apart and and re-timed per the Voodoo instructions and it worked. Here's a video of a full 2x rotations with valves opening.

at this point - all I feel like I know is that the timing instructions (re: positions of the crank/cams) are different for the 5.0, CPC 5.2, and FPC 5.2

 

[bauern]

I would be very leery of running the engine timed that way. The 5.0 coyote and 5.2L CPC are interchangeable; the rod pin location is the same in all views (other than stroke length). I can't see of any reason for a hybrid method.

 

[honeybadger]

I would be very leery of running the engine timed that way. The 5.0 coyote and 5.2L CPC are interchangeable; the rod pin location is the same in all views (other than stroke length). I can't see of any reason for a hybrid method.

are you sure they're interchangeable? this is what was shared with me for the GT500 and it's different than the 5.0 instructions you shared. Not only does the GT500 use 1230 and 11 o clock positions on the crank, it doesn't say anything about a complete revolution (5.0 instructions say 5 o clock position for LH, then one full rotation and clockwise until 12 o clock - which is 1.5 rotations).

 

[honeybadger]

update - got some clear instructions from Mike at L&M today - going to re-timing it per those instructions and see how it goes. Will post results

 

[bauern]

Interested in seeing them.
After you installed the phasers on the cams did you have to rotate the cams to put the timing marks in the position indicated by the 5.0 instructions above?

 

[honeybadger]

Okay - successfully timed the engine last night per Mike's instructions. Essentially, it's timed per the 2015-2017 5.0 timing, but using a different procedure. Not a single clue how I couldn't get the service manual way to work - literally tried 4 times and had contact of piston to valve each time.

But the method from L&M worked and I'd recommend it going forward. Easier than the Ford anyways.

Here's a link to the official instructions. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0075/1131/0433/files/2015_Cam_Timing_Instructions.pdf?1264

Essentially, put the crank keyway at 12o'clock. This puts the pistons at position where no valves can contact the pistons. So you're free to rotate the cams - which is easier than trying to tighten them down under pressure anyways.

Here's the orientation i started with before I went to put the phasers on. Exhaust ended up needing to be rotated about 20 degrees counter-clockwise to slip the phaser on



Phasers start like this, then rotated 90 degrees to the left


Here's how it looked with the LH side fully installed - LH mark is at 12 o'clock (using deck of the head as reference - probably 2 o'clock using photo orientation as reference).




Here's where I started on the RH side. Basically cams in opposite orientation. This side was much easier. All cam lobes are unloaded - so completely neutral position


Phasers went on without an rotation


After getting the RH side on - I verified position by putting cylinder #1 at TDC and compared the cam lobe positions to the photos that Mike sent me. These are verified. so if your lobes match these - you are good to go.



Here's a video if that's you're preferred learning style