Limp Mode / P061C. Looking for advice / help

[ArizonaBOSS]

That is probably your issue right there. The wires should pull out but I'm not 100% sure how. Check in this section for some possible methods.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=710&viewfile=005%20-%20Connector%20Repair%20Procedures.pdf There are other procedures and methods in this section as well.

 

[2012-Boss]

You can buy a new engine harness for about $100. I just ordered one this afternoon along with sensors to send to PRS.

 

[Berol]

You can buy a new engine harness for about $100. I just ordered one this afternoon along with sensors to send to PRS.

Weighing my options right now. Do you have a part number that you ordered? Most harnesses I see online are much more than that.

My other option right now is I may have found the supplier for those plastic connectors, and it looks like it's about $20 for the connector and 9" of wire for both leads. This would make chop and swap easy...but if the whole harness is only $80 more, I might just go that route.

Hell, after all the sensors and wiring I've bought recently, the PRS harness is basically the next step.

 

[2012-Boss]

The harness for my car is part CU5Z-12A581-HA and is $98.66 from Tousley / AutoNation White Bear. The harness is VIN dependent, so you will need to look it up based on you VIN through Fordparts.com.

Getting a part number through fordparts.com is not straight forward. You need an account and then request a quote from a dealer. This will trigger the system to generate an email to you with the actual part and not diagram numbers.

Once you get the part number, you can search for it on one of the discount Ford dealer part sites like Levittown, AutoNation, Tasca, etcetera.

The harness I listed above has the 2012 style VCT connectors. The connectors changed sometime going into the 2013 model year. The 2013 are more of a square shape.

I will shoot you a PM with my phone number if you need help.

 

[VoodooBoss]

The harness I listed above has the 2012 style VCT connectors. The connectors changed sometime going into the 2013 model year. The 2013 are more of a square shape.

The replacement motor in my 2012 came with the updated connectors which was a nice surprise.

 

[2012-Boss]

The replacement motor in my 2012 came with the updated connectors which was a nice surprise.

That was a nice surprise. My understanding is the 2013 connectors do not have the breakage issues that the 2012 cars suffer from.

I should also mention that you cannot buy new Ford VCT solenoids with the 2012 connector. They are discontinued. You can only purchase the 2013 part, BR3Z6M280D. So, if you have to replace a VCT, you will have to splice in the 2013 connectors like ArizonaBoss detailed earlier this past year.

 

[Berol]

Thanks again to all who have replied. Here's an update - After a little research online, I found a replacement exhaust cam sensor wiring plug. Both O'Reillys and Pep Boys sell them. It was only $20, the photos looked like it was the right part so I gave it a try. One bit of fair warning - both stores forced an online-only order with no in store pickup. They make their money on shipping (standard was $13, two day was $15).

The part is made by BWD and their part number for it is PT5749.


The only physical difference I could see between the wiring clip on the car and the one BWD sells is the Ford OEM one has an extra red piece inside the clip to hold the rubber seal in place. The design of the clip is just slightly different and I couldn't transfer the OEM red clip to the BWD clip. I don't think it's a big deal, and if anything, the rubber seal boot on the BWD clip actually seemed to push on to the cam sensor with more effort and seemed to seal better.

From here it was a pretty simple chop and swap. Cut out the old clip, solder in the new one. I had to trim back a fair bit of the factory heat shielding insulation around the cam sensor wiring in order to get enough wire to work with. To make up for it, after soldering was done and heat shrink was applied, I taped both wires together with eletrical tape, and then surrounded that with some 3M insulating tape.

I am also going to add some rigid plastic wire tubing around this just to give it some more structure and to hopefully prevent causing a weak spot (leading to a kink or break) where the OEM wires meet mine.

Plugged it in. Had the battery unplugged and cleared out old flash memory by touching the unplugged battery wires. Started up, and drove around the neighborhood. No codes or limp mode, but then again it never forced limp mode on the street before either.

I think the ultimate solution will be as Steve has done and get a wiring harness. Maybe next year I'll spring for that, and upgrade to 2013 VCT sensors. For the time being, this is a cheap $35 solution.

The real test will be VIR November 21 and 22. If I can run both days without limp mode, I'll be a happy driver.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

Good luck and let's hope that was it!

 

[2012-Boss]

Glad you found a solution. If you do go to 2013 solenoids next year, the harness part number I posted will not work. It has the 2012 pigtails. I would keep your existing harness and simply splice in the 2013 connectors.

 

[Berol]

Quick update. At VIR today.

Session 1 - 40 degrees, may be less. Very little traction. Tires wouldn't even take a solid bite on a 3rd to 4th shift. Car ran for 25 minutes, no problems.

Session 2 - Car went into limp mode just as I started lap 2. Almost got a re-arranged rear bumper from a BMW who didn't expect me to suddenly slow from 45 mph down to 20 mph...

I'm so done with this problem. Packed up and left. I'm going to replace the wiring harness, and probably the PCM at the same time. I'm going to make some calls after Thanksgiving and explore my options.

If that doesn't fix it, I'm consider selling the car. I really love the car, but this issue has costed alot of $$$. Not just to try and fix it, but showing up for track time that I don't even get to use is a huge waste of time, energy and money.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

If you're willing to spend the money, go to the PRS harness.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Well that's a bummer. There's no consistent diagnosis or solution on this. While I threw some codes and went into limp mode a couple of times I never had problems like you're having. FWIW I never threw another code after I had my McLeod clutch and CPR installed. I actually think it was more the clutch than the CPR. Anyway good luck with whichever way you go.

 

[Berol]

Outside of the PRS harness, I'm going to throw this out there for ideas: What keeps me from getting a 2013 harness, along with 2013 VCT solenoids? If I need a 2013 VIN to get a harness (or sensors), I can use my Dad's 2013 VIN.

With that combination, I have every sensor connection made with an OEM style connector (without relying on my cuts/solder) and every sensor is new. I also get the advantage of upgraded 2013 sensors.

If that solution solves the problem, I can pull the sensors and send the wiring harness to PRS to have a harness made. Doing it this way would save me some money upfront in case the wiring harness and sensors don't solve the issue (allowing me to allocate $400+ towards whatever else fixes this issue).

On a separate note, how hard is it to get my hands on a 302S PCM? Going to call Ford Racing tech line on Monday and see what they say as well.

 

[Berol]

Bumping this yet again.

Thanks to Steve's suggestion, I've got a Part number for a 2013 wiring harness. My thought here being if I purchase a 2013 harness, it would be plug and play with 2013 sensors. For less than $200, I can replace the wiring harness and upgrade to 2013 VCT sensors.

The only unknown that remains is on the PCM side. I can go to Tasca's website and pull up multiple different PCM options for my car (and that includes if I feed them my specific car's VIN). They are all listed for 5.0L/Boss 302. They each have different strategy codes (which I expected) but wildly different price points - from a somewhat reasonable $240, to an incredibly crazy $605.

If I provide a VIN from my father's 2013, I get 1 option for the PCM priced at $572.

I still need to call Ford Racing, I just got too busy at work today. But does the strategy of the PCM really matter? I know if I match the one to my car, it would be safest bet in terms of guaranteeing it to work. However, if I can save a few hundred bucks...it's damn tempting to buy the cheapest strategy code PCM. On the flip side, if spending a bit more gives me a better PCM, I'll gladly go that route.

Additionally, if the sensors (and wiring) are all the same, would a 2013 PCM work in a 2012 car? I realize that might cause issues when having the dealer re-program PATS. Putting my VIN into their IDS software wouldn't guarantee that anything will work or be accurate. I'm just trying to keep my options open.

And lastly, what is M-14A006-M302A? FRPP's site seems to be running slow / not working for me right now. Tons of online retailers sell it. Is it really just a 302R/302S wiring harness? The description makes it seems like it's not including sensors, or a PCM. Without the sensors, it doesn't seem to be the PRS harness. Is this really just an OEM street 5.0L wiring harness that FRPP is charging a crazy amount for (a $500 markup?!?)

And just to add to the wild goose chase, at VIR 2 different people have told me about their Coyotes going into limp mode, without codes, due to a bad throttle body. I almost wanted to not believe it when I heard it, it's hard to buy that a throttle body 'goes bad.' But when I heard it the second time...I started to give at least more credibility to the option. I might be shopping eBay for cheap take off throttle bodies too. If anybody has one to donate to my troubleshooting, I'll gladly pay shipping, and ship it back once I'm done. I'm just definitely not buying a new one.

Sorry for all the questions, but I need the help. I'm diving into areas not often traveled, and I really just want this problem behind me.

 

[2012-Boss]

I do not believe M-14A006-M302A is the Boss 302S engine harness based on the wiring diagram posted on Ford Performance. That harness connects to the AIM, fans, PCM, Alternator, MAF, a some other items. It does not come with any sensors.

I do not know of any other differences between the 2012 and 2013 engine harness other than the VCT connectors. It might be worth calling someone like Revolution Automotive and ask if they know. I think this could be a very cost effective alternative to a PRS conversion.

I would not go with any PCM other than the correct one for your VIN to ensure you get the right base calibration. If your PCM went bad, it is a hardware issue that could happen in any PCM. Going with a PCM from another year or from the 302R / 302S will not reduce the possibility of this type of issue.

If you PM me your VIN, I can try to narrow down the correct PCM part number.

 

[Berol]

Thanks for the reply, the info on the PCM is very useful. I'll kick you a PM later today.

I called Ford Racing's tech line yesterday, who basically told me that I'm crazy when I say that the car goes into limp mode without a code. Went around in circles with him for like 5 minutes and then I gave up.

Called somebody else I know that's worked on my car and been involved with the Boss 302R for nearly it's entire racing life cycle. I trust him a lot, and he's convinced me to do the following: Since I'm not getting specific VCT sensor issues, leave them alone. I'm getting a 2012 wiring harness (Part number was the same as Steve's after messing around with the fordparts.com process).

Maybe that's enough to fix it, though we both kind of doubt it. He's obtaining a list of faults that will send the car into limp mode without codes. I'll hook up my SCT x4 and a laptop, and do some full session data logging. Taking a look at the data should be able to determine what signal is throwing a fault for limp mode.

Both Ford Racing and my IMSA contact strongly discouraged me from going PCM at this time. It's an idea that I still have on the table, but I want to put the new harness on the car and run data logging before going that route, just in case it saves me some money.

 

[Berol]

More updates.

2012 wiring harnesses are discontinued, I can only assume because 2012 VCT solenoids are too. Ordered a 2013 wiring harness, with 2013 VCT solenoids. Hopefully that shows up next week.

Rick - @VooDooBOSS Did Ford mention anything about just going straight to 2013 wiring harnesses when they replaced your motor?

Also did my first run of data logging today. Just a quick 6-ish minute run on the street. Most of it cruising at 25-30 mph, with two quick 3rd gear pulls. What's interesting is that in 6 minutes of time, the PCM saw signal for 0 RPM when the car was running on 3 separate occasions. This occurred when cruising at steady throttle pressure (first image), off throttle engine braking at around 3000 RPM (second image), and lastly when just sitting at idle (not displayed, you get the point)..

Other parameters, like throttle position, A/F, cam timing and CHT all track normally. This just reinforces that even though I've only seen P061C ONCE, it has to be what is causing the limp mode fault.

Also, just like all other street sessions I've run before there are no codes, no faults and no limp mode.

 

[VoodooBoss]

More updates.

2012 wiring harnesses are discontinued, I can only assume because 2012 VCT solenoids are too. Ordered a 2013 wiring harness, with 2013 VCT solenoids. Hopefully that shows up next week.

Rick - @VooDooBOSS Did Ford mention anything about just going straight to 2013 wiring harnesses when they replaced your motor?

The did not. My understanding is the 2012 connectors are obsolete so you can only buy 2013's. I'd just update the connectors before replacing the entire harness. That's what they did to my car and also what Drew did to his race car.

@ArizonaBOSS

 

[2012-Boss]

Please let us know if the only difference with the 2013 harness is the VCT connections. If so, I will order a 2013 harness instead of sending mine to PRS.

 

[Berol]

The did not. My understanding is the 2012 connectors are obsolete so you can only buy 2013's. I'd just update the connectors before replacing the entire harness. That's what they did to my car and also what Drew did to his race car.

@ArizonaBOSS

Gotcha, thanks.

Please let us know if the only difference with the 2013 harness is the VCT connections. If so, I will order a 2013 harness instead of sending mine to PRS.

Will do.
In the meantime, DU5Z-12A581-ZA is what I ordered.