Limp Mode / P061C. Looking for advice / help

[steveespo]

Please let us know if the only difference with the 2013 harness is the VCT connections. If so, I will order a 2013 harness instead of sending mine to PRS.

Steve
Only difference is the VCT connections. When I ordered new harness for my engine to send to PRS I was forced to buy '13 harness and VCT solenoids too. I used Pete's VIN as a reference when I ordered. All the other sensors connections were the same as on my '11 harness.
Steve

 

[Berol]

This arrived.



Somehow one of the 4 VCT solenoids is on another UPS shipment but this gives me something to start with. One thing that caught my attention - the VCT solenoid plugs on the wiring harness are filled with dielectric grease while none of the others are.

Hopefully this is all put back together by the end of the weekend. Then more street driving and data logging and HOPEFULLY the RPM signal doesn't show faults. Then I'll register for a track event and try it there. If RPM faults still exist, the PCM is the only thing left I haven't replaced.

 

[VoodooBoss]

Did you order a new harness?

 

[Berol]

Did you order a new harness?

Yeah, a 2013 harness, which forced me to go with the 2013 VCT solenoids. 2012 harnesses have been discontinued.

 

[VoodooBoss]

I hope that works out for you. I think Drew ordered just the connectors and solenoids and spliced them in. That's what they did when they replaced my engine under warranty.

 

[Berol]

I hope that works out for you. I think Drew ordered just the connectors and solenoids and spliced them in. That's what they did when they replaced my engine under warranty.

Yeah, I gave that some thought and it was tempting. But it's possible that the non-VCT portions of the wiring harness are causing the problem. I don't really suspect the 2012 VCT sensors for my particular problem, but this is the perfect time to upgrade them.

Also, even though it turned out pretty good, I've cut up and soldered my harness already for one of the exhaust cam sensors. For roughly $100, plus the cost of solenoids, getting a new wiring harness seemed like the last logical troubleshooting step before replacing the PCM.

 

[Berol]

In the latest installment of 'Dan's Boss is Cursed with Limp Mode'...

Over the course of the last two days, I've stripped the wiring harness out of the car, popped the valve covers off both sides, replaced all 4 VCT sensors to 2013 type and sealed both heads back up.

Today's goal was to put the new 2013 wiring harness in the car and hopefully start it up, until I got to the driver's side exhaust cam VCT solenoid connection. When I had to turn the plug 180 degrees from the intake VCT solenoid, the hair on the back of my neck stood straight up. My instinct told me no way should these plug in with a different orientation.

Fearing that I had somehow installed the VCT solenoid in backwards, and terrified of cylinder head and cam damage, I took the drivers side valve cover back off. I was so glad to see the solenoid installed in the proper direction.


If you look closely, you can see the exhaust cam solenoid has it's black plastic post for the wiring pigtail on the opposite side from the cam, while the intake side has it's post on the other side (looks more like a shadow in the pic).

However, my biggest concern now is does the solenoid polarity for these VCT cams matter? I realize a solenoid can operate with electrical power across it, in either direction, but it seems like if the other 3 cams and the PCM understand one polarity, the 4th cam should be working on the same polarity. While I can just turn the wiring harness pigtail and plug it in, I'm concerned not just about performance but also potential damage to the top end of the engine.

The box on all 4 VCT solenoids lists the same part number. However, the part number stamped on each solenoid is slightly different. The intake VCT (and I'm assuming the other 2 on the passenger side) says:BR3E-6B297-DC while the unique VCT solenoid I have is stamped:BR3E-6B297-DB. Neither of those part numbers is the part number on the boxes, which all say BR3Z-6M280-D, which is what I ordered.


File photo of the Cobra Jet. If you zoom in, both driver's side VCT solenoids and pigtails are oriented the same direction.
https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/pri/images/Downloads/CobraJet_Wallpaper3.jpg

Even if the polarity doesn't matter, sorta disappointed with the quality control on these. And, in general, just getting more and more frustrated with screwing around with this problem.

Paging @ArizonaBOSS too

 

[k98dave]

"Somehow one of the 4 VCT solenoids is on another UPS shipment but this gives me something to start with. One thing that caught my attention - the VCT solenoid plugs on the wiring harness are filled with dielectric grease while none of the others are."

Ok so should the connectors have dielectric grease? Could not having it be one of the problems with the early style connectors? I'm almost afraid to take mine off to look!!!

 

[Berol]

"Somehow one of the 4 VCT solenoids is on another UPS shipment but this gives me something to start with. One thing that caught my attention - the VCT solenoid plugs on the wiring harness are filled with dielectric grease while none of the others are."

Ok so should the connectors have dielectric grease? Could not having it be one of the problems with the early style connectors? I'm almost afraid to take mine off to look!!!

My guess is yes. There's no harm in taking them off, I had my connectors on and off several times before this fiasco started

Also, I am about 95% sure that the one VCT solenoid I got was the one that took forever to get here on a different UPS shipment, which makes me even more suspect of it being right.

 

[302 Hi Pro]

In the latest installment of 'Dan's Boss is Cursed with Limp Mode'...

Over the course of the last two days, I've stripped the wiring harness out of the car, popped the valve covers off both sides, replaced all 4 VCT sensors to 2013 type and sealed both heads back up.

Today's goal was to put the new 2013 wiring harness in the car and hopefully start it up, until I got to the driver's side exhaust cam VCT solenoid connection. When I had to turn the plug 180 degrees from the intake VCT solenoid, the hair on the back of my neck stood straight up. My instinct told me no way should these plug in with a different orientation.

Fearing that I had somehow installed the VCT solenoid in backwards, and terrified of cylinder head and cam damage, I took the drivers side valve cover back off. I was so glad to see the solenoid installed in the proper direction.


If you look closely, you can see the exhaust cam solenoid has it's black plastic post for the wiring pigtail on the opposite side from the cam, while the intake side has it's post on the other side (looks more like a shadow in the pic).

However, my biggest concern now is does the solenoid polarity for these VCT cams matter? I realize a solenoid can operate with electrical power across it, in either direction, but it seems like if the other 3 cams and the PCM understand one polarity, the 4th cam should be working on the same polarity. While I can just turn the wiring harness pigtail and plug it in, I'm concerned not just about performance but also potential damage to the top end of the engine.

The box on all 4 VCT solenoids lists the same part number. However, the part number stamped on each solenoid is slightly different. The intake VCT (and I'm assuming the other 2 on the passenger side) says:BR3E-6B297-DC while the unique VCT solenoid I have is stamped:BR3E-6B297-DB. Neither of those part numbers is the part number on the boxes, which all say BR3Z-6M280-D, which is what I ordered.


File photo of the Cobra Jet. If you zoom in, both driver's side VCT solenoids and pigtails are oriented the same direction.
https://fordperformanceracingparts.com/pri/images/Downloads/CobraJet_Wallpaper3.jpg

Even if the polarity doesn't matter, sorta disappointed with the quality control on these. And, in general, just getting more and more frustrated with screwing around with this problem.

Paging @ArizonaBOSS too

Berol:

Interesting pic you posted of the Left Side, (Drivers Side), cylinder head showing the VCT plugs. I happen to be working on my Boss so I pulled all 4 VCT solenoid plugs. And there is a difference in the plug orientation on my late production 2012 (With 2013 large plug connectors).

But it's not with the exhaust cam, it with the intake cam solenoid. I know, so I triple checked. All of my cam sensors are oriented opposite of your intake cam, (pictured as top camshaft) L/S cylinder head.

Look inside the plug connector, on the inner sides you will see two ribs per side.. 2 thin ribs on one side and 2 thick ribs on the other inner side of the plug. (As pictured). Here is the difference, all of my VCT connectors are orientated with the thick ribs towards the camshaft.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but in your pic, the intake sensor has these same 2 thick ribs towards the radiator. I'm not sure if this helps you. Do the solenoid only bolt in one way? Did you give your VIN when parts were ordered? My local dealer only orders parts by VIN to ensure correct parts are ordered due to rolling production changes. Like my 2013 style connectors in my 2012.

Good luck and keep us posted,
Hoping you find the fix soon.
302 Hi Pro

Good luck

 

[302 Hi Pro]

Oh, one more thing, no grease found in my plugs, but it's not going back together without grease. I found all of my pin connectors, solenoid side have a white corrosion build up, like one would find in that 6 year old flash light when you removed the batteries. I'll clean them up, lube and reinstall.

302 Hi Pro.

 

[ArizonaBOSS]

The difference is odd but is should not have any impact as long as the pins that actuate the VCT are all facing the cams. The orientation of the wiring does not matter. This was what I was told when splicing in the new pigtails--the wires can go to either connection; they are reversible

 

[Berol]

Berol:

But it's not with the exhaust cam, it with the intake cam solenoid. I know, so I triple checked. All of my cam sensors are oriented opposite of your intake cam, (pictured as top camshaft) L/S cylinder head.

Look inside the plug connector, on the inner sides you will see two ribs per side.. 2 thin ribs on one side and 2 thick ribs on the other inner side of the plug. (As pictured). Here is the difference, all of my VCT connectors are orientated with the thick ribs towards the camshaft.

Thanks Dave. That is exactly how my Dad's 2013 is put together too. All of them electrically face the same direction, and the plastic post for the clip faces forward.

The difference is odd but is should not have any impact as long as the pins that actuate the VCT are all facing the cams. The orientation of the wiring does not matter. This was what I was told when splicing in the new pigtails--the wires can go to either connection; they are reversible

Perfect. Thanks Drew. It's what I was leaning towards thinking, but I wasn't willing to risk it without investigating it more. My guess is that since whoever puts these together knows that it doesn't matter, then they just slap them together. It makes sense from an easy of manufacturing standpoint, but I really wish a little more rigorous QA was applied to it.

I feel alot better about this. Moving onwards again tomorrow.

 

[Berol]

Parts show up on Thursday - valve cover gasket, a VCT solenoid (just to see what shows up in terms of orientation of the connector) and a dip stick oil tube. Tube was broken when I pulled the valve cover. While it's entirely possible I might have broken it, it looked like somebody before me had cobbled it together and I remember always having to fight to get the dip stick past a certain point every time. I think it was always hanging up where the two busted pieces had been jimmied together. I could have lived with it, but it was all of $2 for another one.

Got bored waiting for parts, so I called Ford Racing about the solenoids. In all honesty, their tech line had no clue as to whether or not the polarity of the wiring would matter on those solenoids. After fussing around trying to find a diagram, he basically gave up and just said he doesn't think it matters but that nothing would break if it's wrong, I would just get codes.

I'm a huge Ford product guy, but I gotta say that their tech line does suck. I realize that they aren't in the business of fixing people's cars for free, but they've got to realize that sometimes people need actual technical data at an engineering level. I've been disappointed every time I call that number.

By contrast, this forum has been incredibly helpful 8). On schedule to be starting this thing up New Year's Eve and doing more data logging.

 

[TMSBOSS]

Did you contact Ford or Ford Racing/Performance?

 

[Berol]

Did you contact Ford or Ford Racing/Performance?

Ford Racing

 

[Tucson 302]

Good luck and I really hope this fixes your issue, I can personally relate to how much limp mode really sucks when your on track!

 

[Berol]

Parts arrived. The extra VCT solenoid that was part of this shipment had it's post orientation in common with 3 of my other 4. I used this one and swapped out the unicorn VCT solenoid so that all 4 are the same, mostly to satisfy my OCD.

Car starts and runs, no leaks. Data logging still shows RPM faults. In a six minute drive around the block there were two separate, brief instances when the PCM saw signal for 0 RPM.

Drove home and performed the crank sensor relearn with the silver key, then did another 7 minute drive with the red key. Still have 2 instances in that relatively short drive when the PCM saw signal for 0 rpm.

Fixing this is now out of my hands. I'm fully capable of performing the REPAIR, but the DIAGNOSIS is what completely eludes me. I really think the PCM is flawed as Steve's was. The only other thing I could do would be drop the exhaust, drop the transmission and visually inspect the pulse ring but that does NOT excite me one bit, and I'm not really sure how it could be 'messed up.' Next mission is to find a reasonable dealer to work with and move forward.

Summary of changes:

• All new cam shaft position sensors (4)
• New crankshaft position sensor (tried two different new ones)
• More crank relearn procedures completed than I can count
• Upgraded to 2013 VCT solenoids
• Brand new 2013 wiring harness
• New Pulse ring
• Probably more that I can't think of

 

[Berol]

Actually, one more thought comes to mind - if anybody out there has any data logged files, and is willing to share them or bits of them, I'd love to see how your RPM signal function looks compared to mine.

Could be street or track, silver key, red key or 3rd party tunes, doesn't matter to me.

 

[Berol]

Had one last idea I had to try. The FRPP Competition Pulse Ring is the only thing that I haven't visually verified or replaced after all these problems started. Before investing in an ECM, I wanted to at least verify that it's straight. Being lazy, I didn't want to drop the transmission.

So, bought a borescope off of Amazon for $20. Really it's just a 2 megapixel digital camera that connects to any USB capable device.

Pulled all the spark plugs. Then pulled the CKP sensor. Snaked the borescope into the CKP sensor location and then turned the motor by hand. Got a good look at each tooth on the Competition Pulse ring as it went by.

Typical tooth arrangement with clean, square machining:


Continuing to turn the motor via the crank pulley, got to the area on the Pulse Ring which has the missing tooth. What's interesting is that neither tooth on either side of the 'missing 'tooth' section is crisply machined. The lines on the tooth are at best jagged, if not partially missing material.

Leading tooth:


Missing tooth (by design):


Trailing tooth:


CKP file photo:


My stock OEM pulse ring is in a storage shed. Going to have to dig it out and look at it and compare the shape of the teeth on the missing tooth section.

Until then, any thoughts? I realize this question cannot be answered very definitively, but is the quality of the machining of those two teeth poor enough to cause this problem?