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Track Car opinions

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Between the airdam and spoiler, I think it's designed to create a big wake at speed on an oval. I don't recall the specific downforce numbers, but I think there pretty big.

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
Average NASCAR stock car generates downforce of between 1,500 to 1,750 pounds. I'm sure those numbers are at the 200+ MPH speeds, but that will still be a big wake around 100 MPH.
Grant 302 said:
Between the airdam and spoiler, I think it's designed to create a big wake at speed on an oval. I don't recall the specific downforce numbers, but I think there pretty big.

My friend on a NASCAR team said as much, it was an issue with the Car of Tomorrow and supposedly the reason they went back to a spoiler
Ah, ok. There was a 2011 COT on Ebay, one of the UPS cars. Probably more than i would put in one but the couple of people I spoke with told me to stay away from the COT because of handling. The advice was to go with a 2007 or earlier.

As far as the spoiler, believe or not fans had some part in the spoiler changing because they didn't like the way they looked if memory serves me correct.

Ran across this article.


Too Hot for the Boss!
Check in with some of the NASA regions as they are starting a late model class with lower cost rules. Motorsport engine (Ford 351, Chevy 350 or Dodge whatever). Spec weights and alignments, gearing, etc. Projected cost of entry approx $15k. The cars do run forever once you chase all of the problems and handling issues out of them.

Chuck Taylor is our local rep for the class (NASA Rocky Mountain). I think they have some specs up on the National forum.
frosty said:
P.S. People I run with have tried to talk me into a Spec Miata and from a cost standpoint they seem to be a very good option. However, I don't care for convertibles and I want something with power. As Arizona pointed out, I know a lot of HP doesn't mean fast but personally I like the challenge learning to be smooth enough to be fast with the HP.

I think everyone should start out in a Spec Miata. If you can be fast in one of those you can be fast in anything.

I met a guy at the track not too long ago with a BAD ASS Porsche. He was tellin me about the twin super charger etc... ::) I passed him several times in my Miata that day. ;D

Grant 302

basic and well known psychic
smittytx said:
I think everyone should start out in a Spec Miata. If you can be fast in one of those you can be fast in anything.

I met a guy at the track not too long ago with a BAD ASS Porsche. He was tellin me about the twin super charger etc... ::) I passed him several times in my Miata that day. ;D

Nah. He just didn't know how to drive 'FLATOUT' :p
Plus I imagine the fear of bending it up played some role in it.

I'd probably go with some type of cart before a Miata. If I ever talked myself into a small, convertible for the track, it would probably be the S2000.

Is it Fri yet?????
frosty said:
The key here is, you crash the BMW, or production cars, where do you go to buy parts and panels?

Where do you go to fix the damage?

You want to set the car up for an oval track, a road course or have the option to do both, where do you get the suspension parts?

Where do you go get sway bars, control arms or even a set of springs?

Funny I was thinking the same about the car you bought. I guess you would have to know someone that works on race cars like yours. As far as parts for the BMW, there are plenty of parts in salvage yards and tons of aftermarket parts available. (way more than for the Boss).

I too didn't want to risk driving the Boss on the track yet so I bought this for 14K.

The car is tube and sheet metal. Think a sheet of sheet metal is like $40. There are plenty of fabricators in this area. I know worse case I can take it to a pro shop that restores cup cars for $68 an hour.

So really you aren't digging around for things.

Also, if all you did is mess up a door or something that you can simply bolt on and it lines up that probably wouldn't be bad and a production car like the BMW may be as good or better option.

However, you crash and smash up a door jamb or something. Look at the Mark Martin crash at Michigan.

Springs for the car for example, I can go get new race springs for different setups for $20 a piece. $60 to $90 for news depending on the quality.

I like working on cars and having something like this cup car, you have plenty of space to work in and none of the things you have to work around in a production car.

Also, take the rear end, with the 9" Ford you can change out the gearing pretty easy from what I'm told.

My biggest concern is the engine and the largest cost is going to be running 112 octane fuel. Best I've found so far is $8.95 a gallon.

However, ArizonaGT has given me some ideas about doing research on trying to run E85.

Maybe we should start a BMW, Miata and Cup Car thread on costs. I think that may help others down the road.
First lesson, car takes 21 qts of oil. Running 21 minute track sessions, probably run around 15+ quarts.

Was thinking it would be around 8 to 10.
I took my E30 in to have a tranny expansion tank added and the main seal replaced, on the way I had a caliper lock up. I knew it was on the way out, as it was a bear to get it to retract for the last pad swap and it sounded like it was dragging a little. Some of the joys of a 25 year old car. But for $300, my guy is getting me 2 new calipers for the front. Another joy of an old POS, cheap parts if they are not something hard to find ;D

You burn 15 quarts of oil in one 21 minute session?
CaliMR said:
You burn 15 quarts of oil in one 21 minute session?

No. From what I understand they run these large oil reservoirs to keep the engines as cool as possible. 21 quarts is for a 300+ mile all out race. For running a 20 minute track session, they suggested somewhere around 15 qts should do. The key is just keeping an eye on the temp gauge.
Frosty -
Love the car - it will be fun to learn to drive. I run a late model for road racing - would class as a GTA (around 500-550hp) with SCCA. With my local NASA region, I have to run SU where it is not really competative with the retired NASCARs that run around 800hp and a Ferrari 360s challenge car. Fuel is definately a hit for a two day weekend, but I have been able to get scuff tires for around $25 each that offset it a little. One set will last me a weekend with one driver in the car. You could possibly stretch them out to two weekends for a HPDE if you are ready to slide the car some. Last time at VIR, the car was faster as the tires wore - tells me I am running the set-up too tight.
Leaded gas at VIR, 110 oct., was around $8.50 a few weeks ago. At CMP for unleaded 110 was over $9.

I am assuming the car has a dry sump set-up? If not, make sure you get an accusump or other pressure reservoir. Long sweeping corners are hell on oil pressure.

Thanks for the info Aaron. I'm PM you my contact info. Maybe we can share tips and parts places etc as I get into this.

Where are you located? If you need parts I would suggest check out

Seems like they are very reasonable on parts. 55 gallon drums of Sunoco fuel 110 $7.27 a gallon. 112 $8.95 a gallon

I briefly looked into E85 and E98 but there I've got some mixed opinions about it and it's effects on the fuel system and engine.

The car has a 5 stage dry sump system.

If you are close to Charlotte, I've really liked talking to Bill Rhine at Rhine Enterprises. They really seem to know their stuff and seem to have reasonable shop rates if you need something custom.
frosty said:

Curious as to why that is?

About the same dimensions as a mustang, right? You can setup them up to weigh much less. COG is is probably about the same.

Running 300 wide tires.

If somebody told me I could pick my LS or a prepped Bush or arca car to race at Watkins Glen for $5,000. I love my LS but if all I had were some tires and springs, I doubt I'd pick it over a cup based car. (Maybe I'm way wrong again, I'll post as I get a chance to drive it.) (I've heard the COT setup is a different story though.)

The cup cars, are the ones you're talking about, are they runing Bias or Radials?

Did they get the same compounds for all 4 wheels? Oval setups they run a different compound on rights and lefts.

Were the running the right spring rate/sway bar combination? sways etc up for a road course and set the camber and caster properly?

I wonder if the wind is because of the spoiler?

Whether it handles better than my LS really isn't that big of a concern but I would have a hard time believing you can't setup these or any car to go fast. When I hear brick, I think heavy or bad aero? They aren't as heavy and I would think the aero on a cup based car would be better than a Mustang.

Just talking this through, and plan to use any comments from here while tinkering.

FYI. If anybody goes this route, I just found Rhine Enterprised in Denver, NC. They do vintage cup setup and restorations. They also do a lot of other cars. Spoke with him today and sounds like they have a lot of knowledge.

Brother, I have no idea!

Just that when I went around him I could my car get buffeted in his wake.............

Getting a NASCAR would be fun if you find one that was already setup to road course work.
frosty said:
Thanks Grant/Cali. Cali, I briefly considered something like the Legend as they run every Tues at Charlotte Motor Speedway. (I think.)

Here is a pix of the car. I put a deposit down and I'm supposed to go pick it up next Sat.


Here's an album I created with some other pix.

One added bonus I hadn't thought of is getting to kid my wife about being a "Nascar owner". Trying to get her to work on her accent now to match mine!!! ;D

Haha you need to post an interview with her once she has that accent down! I got a good laugh out of that one.

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