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The GT350 Flat Plane Crank Motor

twistedneck

TMO Race
328
35
Dearborn, MI
superhero said:
Why cant a car like the GT350R come from the factory with long tube headers and have cats bolted up to them. I mean, they go as far as shorty headers. Why not long tube. Im sure the cost should not be anything to even think about. could it just be that with long tube headres, they would be unable to make it emmision friendly? Or is FORD saying heareds are a waste. Eighter way that engine has a sound all of it own!
No way a cat will get hot enough quickly enough. There are light off cats designed to be directly in the flaming exhaust plume because sometimes it takes a cat that close to the exhaust to clean the air. Not to mention the valves are huge and the headers tubes are giant. I think the entire flat plane idea was to get long tube header performance without needing them.
 

superhero

TMO Addict
730
83
New Jersey
twistedneck said:
No way a cat will get hot enough quickly enough. There are light off cats designed to be directly in the flaming exhaust plume because sometimes it takes a cat that close to the exhaust to clean the air. Not to mention the valves are huge and the headers tubes are giant. I think the entire flat plane idea was to get long tube header performance without needing them.
thank you for clearing things up. I can see what your talking about in Close to the flame.
 

KBBOSS1086

TMO Addict
516
25
Northeast PA
Sorry to get off topic a bit, but in addition to the amazing sound highlighted in the Ring video Rick posted above, the first thing I noticed was how planted the car was exiting the carousel turn at that speed. I think anyone who's driven the Ring will tell you that the exit to the Carousel is very unsettling to most cars...seeing the GT350 rocket out of that turn as planted as it was is just mind blowing to me. The grip level on this car is going to be absolutely amazing! The more I see and read, the more I'm excited about eventually owning one, but at the same time, torn by the likelihood I won't be able to keep the Boss too.
 

fuhrius

TMO Addict
893
12
SF Bay Area
NFSBOSS said:
I think that's the MRC dampers doing their magic. And I hear you about selling the Boss. I don't have room for another car so it has to go. I might have some news on the GT350 front tomorrow.
here here...selling the Boss will make me sad as well. But having the gt350R will likely make up for that ;-)
Teasing GT350 info?! :)
 

ArizonaBOSS

Because racecar.
Moderator
8,446
2,190
Arizona, USA
Lots of people on the internet losing their minds over this whole "over rev" feature thing, worrying that it will suck on track. I venture that it will be just fine.



Discuss.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
1,822
286
Northeast
No Joke, it's the PCM OEM tune parameters. I would think it will also save stress on the valve-train assembly as well as other internals.

It will be interesting to learn how, (and compare), how the MultiMatic race prepped GT350R's are tuned.

Dave
2HP
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
3,586
926
NY Metro
302 Hi Pro said:
No Joke, it's the PCM OEM tune parameters. I would think it will also save stress on the valve-train assembly as well as other internals.

It will be interesting to learn how, (and compare), how the MultiMatic race prepped GT350R's are tuned.

Dave
2HP
They're not tuned like that that is for sure. I also saw someone post that this wouldn't matter on a road course, well they apparently have never gone from Turn 2 to the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen or up the back straight at VIR or anywhere around Road America. Need more than 8 seconds of WOT above 6250 at those places. There must be a track setting or key coming out that they can charge you $315 dollars for to get full revs all the time. ;) To me an "over-rev" feature would mean 8750 rpm available under that 8 second parameter.
Steve
 

cloud9

Gary
6,580
7
Sioux Falls, SD
steveespo said:
They're not tuned like that that is for sure. I also saw someone post that this wouldn't matter on a road course, well they apparently have never gone from Turn 2 to the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen or up the back straight at VIR or anywhere around Road America. Need more than 8 seconds of WOT above 6250 at those places. There must be a track setting or key coming out that they can charge you $315 dollars for to get full revs all the time. ;) To me an "over-rev" feature would mean 8750 rpm available under that 8 second parameter.
Steve
I may end up having to rethink my gear selection through certain sections. Given the broad fat torque curve you may be able to operate at lower revs through sections like tge Carousel at RA for example.
 

cloud9

Gary
6,580
7
Sioux Falls, SD
cloud9 said:
I may end up having to rethink my gear selection through certain sections. Given the broad fat torque curve you may be able to operate at lower revs through sections like tge Carousel at RA for example.
90 percent of peak torque produced from approximately 3450 – 7000 rpm
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
3,586
926
NY Metro
You would have to shift up from 5th to 6th or sit against the 6250 rev limit at about 135 mph on the straights. This has to be misrepresented, torque isn't gonna pull 6th gear to make up for the loss of HP on the top end. At 6250 and 360 lb/ft of torque (90% of 400) you are making 429 HP, at 7700 you are supposedly making 526, I know where I want the car heading to Canada corner. Can't wait to have this discussion at Hastings on Saturday night with the Ford guys.
Steve
 

cloud9

Gary
6,580
7
Sioux Falls, SD
steveespo said:
You would have to shift up from 5th to 6th or sit against the 6250 rev limit at about 135 mph on the straights. This has to be misrepresented, torque isn't gonna pull 6th gear to make up for the loss of HP on the top end. At 6250 and 360 lb/ft of torque (90% of 400) you are making 429 HP, at 7700 you are supposedly making 526, I know where I want the car heading to Canada corner. Can't wait to have this discussion at Hastings on Saturday night with the Ford guys.
Steve
Arr you sure you would top out 5th? At 8250 I am guessing you would be hitting 170+ mph or better on 19" rubber.
 

302 Hi Pro

Boss 302 - Racing Legend to Modern Muscle Car
1,822
286
Northeast
steveespo said:
Can't wait to have this discussion at Hastings on Saturday night with the Ford guys.

Steve
Steve:

I'm hoping this conversation happens tonight as I'm looking forward to hearing your report on this from the Ford guys. I totally agree the 8 second time limit would hamstring the driver on most all road courses. You can cover a lot of distance in 8 seconds.

It does seem odd to me why this would be necessary on the new FPC Voodoo engine?

Thanks so much,
Dave
2HP
 

cloud9

Gary
6,580
7
Sioux Falls, SD
302 Hi Pro said:
Steve:

I'm hoping this conversation happens tonight as I'm looking forward to hearing your report on this from the Ford guys. I totally agree the 8 second time limit would hamstring the driver on most all road courses. You can cover a lot of distance in 8 seconds.

It does seem odd to me why this would be necessary on the new FPC Voodoo engine?

Thanks so much,
Dave
2HP
Do we really believe that Ford put out a flagship road racer that is predetermined to go into limp mode on the racetrack guys? ;) I am interested in the rationale or need for it, but am not buying it's going to neuter the car's on track performance.
 

steveespo

Lord knows I'm a Voodoo Child
Moderator
3,586
926
NY Metro
cloud9 said:
Do we really believe that Ford put out a flagship road racer that is predetermined to go into limp mode on the racetrack guys? ;) I am interested in the rationale or need for it, but am not buying it's going to neuter the car's on track performance.
Gary I agree with you. Something has to be fishy with this information. Otherwise Ford will be the laughing stock of the performance world. I bet it creates this artificial redline below the temps outlined AND above 235 CHT. In between 8250 should be available. We shall see for sure in a few months right?
 

cloud9

Gary
6,580
7
Sioux Falls, SD
steveespo said:
Gary I agree with you. Something has to be fishy with this information. Otherwise Ford will be the laughing stock of the performance world. I bet it creates this artificial redline below themps outlined AND above 235 CHT. In between 8259 should be available. We shall see for sure in a few months right?
Yes sir. I doubt I'll get to push a Track Tour car hard enough to find out, but we'll get a thorough explanation at the Roundup that's for sure.
 

twistedneck

TMO Race
328
35
Dearborn, MI
DG#56 said:
Is this a joke?
Don't forget it does not have wicked Livernois race springs, Billet H-beam rods, or billet oil pump gears!

Still, Ford has some of the harshest dyno validations in the world - I assume in order to meet them one of the criteria is you can't hold peak RPM more than XX seconds. that heats up piston faces something crazy and those rings could grow and snap. NASCAR mitigates this with piston oil jets - 4 of them per cylinder.
 

VoodooBoss

Rick
Moderator
cloud9 said:
Do we really believe that Ford put out a flagship road racer that is predetermined to go into limp mode on the racetrack guys? ;)
No. I'll ask next Friday as some Ford engineers are supposed to be at Laguna Seca for the historic races. I can put a list of questions together and will start a separate thread on that subject.
 

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