Blown 2012 Engine.Important read

[07SGT0547]

I am still suspect that there is truly an endemic design flaw in the '12 engines,

They only changed a few things in the engine since the first one was built. One is the oil squirters went from steel to aluminum this was probably an issue as to shelf life aluminum will not rust. We do this where I work all the time redesign for shelf life, manufacturability, and cost reduction. heck sometimes it is just for the simple reason of availibilty.

Wait. What? Bosses do not have oil squirters.

Supposedly the squirters were used on the pre-2013 GT 5.0 to help keep the pistons cooler... But NOT used on the BOSS version of the 302 due to the high windage problems caused by the higher RPM's on the BOSS... And the fact that the BOSS comes with Forged Pistons as well...

 

[jeepinocala]

Ok so the squirters here goes-- They do have them in fact all the motors ford makes have them BUT they put block off parts in them inside the motor block they just block them off the last build they went to aluminum and my suspect is that was done for shelf life so they can just make a ton of them and put them on a shelf as steel would rust BUT steel would not rust in the engine this is my thought except I know they did go to aluminum block offs.

 

[07SGT0547]

So here is a picture of the actual squirters:

Your eBay link looks more like AccuFabs Magnetic Oil Drain Plugs for the 2005-2006 Ford GT...

http://www.accufabracing.com/index.php?option=com_redshop&view=product&pid=109&Itemid=9

EDIT = I did find a 3rd Party version of a Squirter Block Off Plate:

2011-2013 5.0 Piston Oil Squirter Block off plates (qty 4)
These Billet Aluminum plates block off the oil passages when the oil squirters are removed for High HP applications (most aftermarket pistons will interfere with the factory squirters) -direct bolt on. Improves oiling to bearings! Same as boss models and new 2013 models that now have deleted the piston squireters from the factory.

 

[jeepinocala]

Same as boss models and new 2013 models that now have deleted the piston squireters from the factory.
[/quote]

I have read where the Boss 2012 and 2013 both have had the squirters blocked off from Ford from the start?
Yeah my bad on the link I could not find the correct one but the point is they are just blocked off so on all of the blocks the holes are actually there. Thanks for the great pictures.

 

[jeepinocala]

How do you like the burs in that block ;D I know that factory production tries to cut all costs but that is exactly what I have seen form these engines opened up knowing all it would take is one to fall off in the right place at the right time

 

[PeteInCT]

FYI - After reading this I pulled all my plugs to check their burn. I 'use' (burn, lose, who knows) about 1/4 qt of oil per track day. All plugs looked great, and i have no power loss issues whatsoever. For engines that do have an issue, I think the oil consumption is a symptom but not part of the root cause. It is interesting that we all seem to have various experiences with the amount of oil we lose at the track or even just with street driving.

 

[jeepinocala]

Let me ask this -- Can the vvt in our cars if told can they make the valves hit the piston? If so is there a way to safe guard it? Somthing like this-- http://www.blowbyracing.com/cocamu54vphl.html You said they told you with the scope they could see where the valves were hitting the piston. This is why I ask.

 

[07SGT0547]

Weekend Update (7/22/2012):

Called the Servicing Advisor on Friday Afternoon for the status on the replacement Long Block: Expected early next week... Which is fine with me...

Since the problem is "non-serviceable" the Dealer isn't having his Engine Tech spend any time tearing down the original engine just to see what's wrong... Unfortunately, I will probably never know the true cause of the failure, once the block gets back to Ford's Engineering Dept...

But from looking around at other forums and talking to a few people, I am more inclined to believe that there is a design issue with the Aluminum Heads (warping/lifting/shifting/etc) combined with the high temps caused by running the car at the higher PRM's than an oiling issue (spun rod bearing) with a completely forged bottom end that is specifically designed to rev to 8,400 PRM...

I also believe that a majority of the oil consumption issues are the result of the higher RPM's forcing the oil vapors out the PCV system... For those of you who have the "Catch Can" installed, is the amount of oil in the canister consistent with the amount of oil you are showing low on the dipstick??? I realize that it won't be 100% accurate, but at least it is an indication of "where" that oil might be going... And other than a physical leak, where else could it go???

One thing for sure, I will be having the "initial" oil change done by my Local Dealership at around the 1,000-mile mark on the replacement block... And will be requesting that I get to keep a sample of the drained oil, as well as the oil filter itself so that I can take a look inside it just to see what it looks like...

Will update again when I hear from the Dealer that the Replacement Long Block has arrived in Topeka...

 

[steveespo]

I just read on allfordmustangs.com that the 2013 GT 5.0 engines have the piston squirt ears again. This was confirmed by Deyesha who is the Ford Customer service rep who posts on that site and helps members get Ford attention when needed. I personally don't think these have anything to do with oil consumption on GTs and would use them on any build ups as the benefit of cooling and lubricating the wrist pins plus taking heat away from the piston crown is a benefit that high rpm engines can use. I really would like the road runner engineers to explain why they don't use them on the Boss motor, windage at high rpm isn't a problem for Ferrari, Porsche, Audi or BMW who all use the on engines that turn 8000 rpm or higher, the Ferrari turns 9200!
Let's talk about it.
Steve

 

[jeepinocala]

Ok the oil squirters are not a concer to me motors never had them before so eithe way now worrie but I did read where with them you have a lower oil pressure ?

Quote'
I am more inclined to believe that there is a design issue with the Aluminum Heads (warping/lifting/shifting/etc) combined with the high temps caused by running the car at the higher PRM's than an oiling issue (spun rod bearing) with a completely forged bottom end that is specifically designed to rev to 8,400 PRM...
Quote'

I dont think they have any design issue since it does not matter --any aluminum head will warp with to much heat it is a definate thing. Heat aluminum dont mix at all I used to race 2 stroke carts that spun 16000 yep 16000 rpm and we ran them very very close to the what I called melting point well sticking a piston point I had a 3 jet slide carb and the third jet was a dump valve for when you hit a turn to get the temp down a bit ofcourse we ran alkohol but we also ran it 15 deg lower then the point of sticking a piston my point is these are known to be great heads and are made as others are so I go to a more importante point--- If you ran a larger radiator and had your car cooler would this have happened : Just a guess I also do not believe with the head bolts that these heads can move around at all. If you take aluminum say bore a good press fit for a bearing you put the aluminum in your oven at 420 degree when it gets there that bearing will drop right out or in this is how we put bearings in racing cart engines so imagin what happenes to the heads/block after it get a little to hot. Thats life for aluminum not a thing to worrie of just keep it cool Well there is my two whole cents ;D

 

[VoodooBoss]

Weekend Update (7/22/2012):

I also believe that a majority of the oil consumption issues are the result of the higher RPM's forcing the oil vapors out the PCV system... For those of you who have the "Catch Can" installed, is the amount of oil in the canister consistent with the amount of oil you are showing low on the dipstick??? I realize that it won't be 100% accurate, but at least it is an indication of "where" that oil might be going... And other than a physical leak, where else could it go???

Not even close. I've added a total of two quarts in between two oil changes at 6,500 miles. Surprisingly I did not burn any oil during my last track day. I just had my oil changed for the third time and I'll continue to keep a close eye on it going forward.

 

[jeepinocala]

Weekend Update (7/22/2012):

I also believe that a majority of the oil consumption issues are the result of the higher RPM's forcing the oil vapors out the PCV system... For those of you who have the "Catch Can" installed, is the amount of oil in the canister consistent with the amount of oil you are showing low on the dipstick??? I realize that it won't be 100% accurate, but at least it is an indication of "where" that oil might be going... And other than a physical leak, where else could it go???

Not even close. I've added a total of two quarts in between two oil changes at 6,500 miles. Surprisingly I did not burn any oil during my last track day. I just had my oil changed for the third time and I'll continue to keep a close eye on it going forward.

I would think that any motor ran as hard and long would use some oil maybe not as much as some of us and would think that would be going through the rings? Being burnt. So these are production engines right?

 

[07SGT0547]

Ironically, I used absolutely NO OIL that day out at the Track...

3 - Full 20-min sessions without any sign of loss on the Dip Stick...

Even checked it once more when we dropped the car off at the Dealership... Right at the FULL mark...

Up until the 1st oil change @ 3,600 miles, I had gone thru a couple of quarts...

Sometimes the 1/2 quart loss was under normal, highway driving...

And others, it was a 1/2 quart low after a day at the track...

So who knows???

 

[CaliMR]

I burn more oil on the highway than running it aggressively through the hills. I'm at 5 quarts iirc at <3k miles. I took a 400 mile round trip and was almost at the bottom mark.

 

[CaliMR]

I just read on allfordmustangs.com that the 2013 GT 5.0 engines have the piston squirt ears again. This was confirmed by Deyesha who is the Ford Customer service rep who posts on that site and helps members get Ford attention when needed. I personally don't think these have anything to do with oil consumption on GTs and would use them on any build ups as the benefit of cooling and lubricating the wrist pins plus taking heat away from the piston crown is a benefit that high rpm engines can use. I really would like the road runner engineers to explain why they don't use them on the Boss motor, windage at high rpm isn't a problem for Ferrari, Porsche, Audi or BMW who all use the on engines that turn 8000 rpm or higher, the Ferrari turns 9200!
Let's talk about it.
Steve

Do those cars use squirters? I don't know much about their newer motors. They also may have cranks scrapers or a more "advanced" design that deals with the windage. FWIW on my E30, people are claiming 2-3 whp gain from a crank scraper which is about 2% increase.

Also, the V10 BMW motors burn a lot of oil. There is a digital display to tell you when they need more oil. They also gave buyers a little tote to carry oil and there is a molded area it fits into in the trunk. When my bro bought his, they were very adamant about keeping it topped off and monitoring the display. They claimed that it was because all forged motors burn oil, which is an old proverb that I am not sure is necessarily true anymore, but that is one example of a high rpm motor that definitely does burn oil.

My worry about the Boss motor is not that it burns oil, but that some of them do not. So it isn't inherent to the design, there is something about certain motors that makes them burn more oil.


Also Pete, 1/4 quart is pretty typical for track days on many other cars. My E30 burns 1/4-1/2 quart but it is pretty old, and my Evo burned about 1/4-1/2 quart too. The cars that burn oil normally but not at the track are the atypical ones in my experience.

 

[BLAZN BOSS]

Ford has used oil squirting way before now. Early 289's have them built into the rod side of the connecting rods. Avery small hole drilled so when the crank rotated around the upper rod bearing would align and spray oil oil the cylinder and wrist pin. I sought out these rods to use in my race 289's. I would give up some loss of hp for the protection. Obviously in late 68 289's and all 69 and up 302's that design was dropped as it wasn't needed for street motor. My motors worked in the 8500 and sometime 9000 range. With polished beams and SPS rodbolts I never had a rod failure. Now these squirters seem to spray the pistons only on the GT's......The bottom of the piston gets pretty hot but enough to burn oil?........i dunno and I doubt it. I have built lots and lots of engines, where I worked, my own repair shop and helped lots of my close friends with race engines. I would bet these boss motors come with chrome molly rings not plain steel rings. Chrome molly, awesome for engines! but dont over heat them, the'll lose tension and then the trouble begins.


I wish I had a good guess for what could be happening to you guys motors losing oil. Thank God I haven't had to deal with it at all. You all sound like you take care of your cars so is it just bad luck? cause everyone isnt having the problem so it aint a design flaw.

Hopefully an answer will come.

 

[BossJockey]

Weekend Update (7/22/2012):

I also believe that a majority of the oil consumption issues are the result of the higher RPM's forcing the oil vapors out the PCV system... For those of you who have the "Catch Can" installed, is the amount of oil in the canister consistent with the amount of oil you are showing low on the dipstick??? I realize that it won't be 100% accurate, but at least it is an indication of "where" that oil might be going... And other than a physical leak, where else could it go???

Not even close. I've added a total of two quarts in between two oil changes at 6,500 miles. Surprisingly I did not burn any oil during my last track day. I just had my oil changed for the third time and I'll continue to keep a close eye on it going forward.

My Boss used about 3 to 4 qts for the first 7,000 miles (split between 2 oil changes). It hasn't used any since my last oil change 1,100 miles ago. Maybe it takes 6 -7K miles to fully brake these engines in.

 

[LateApex]

Haven't had the issue myself. Car uses no appreciable oil on normal street driving. Maybe uses 1/2 a quart over the course of two track days bashing on it, but that's certainly not abnormal at all. I used an aggressive engine break-in procedure that I've used for all my track cars in the past, and by 1500 miles I'd changed the oil twice. Been solid and strong since.

 

[LostPony]

I did my first oil change at about 1200 miles, and noticed it only took about 7.5 quarts to fill up. I think it is because I didn't allow the oil to drain long enough. On my next change at about 6000 or so, I allowed it to drain much longer and it took 8 to fill. I used about 1 quart between those changes. I never add oil unless it is to the bottom mark on the stick to prevent over filling. I am about 3000 miles into this cycle and I am down about 1/2 a quart, again I will not add until or unless it gets to the bottom mark before I change it again in about 2000 miles. I am using Castrol 5w50 synthetic.

I drive quite a bit of highway/ back road on my 2 1/2 hour weekly trip to and from work. There are a lot of 4th gear upper end of rev range passes done on the 2 lane roads. I also put my car on the track for a session or 2 every few weeks, a nice perk working at a race track, and the remainder of the time are what I would consider normal little trips around town. Also, during the week when at work I have a very short 2.2 mile commute to the track, barely enough time to even get warm. I would say my car sees every possible type of driving situation you can encounter.

My personal opinion on the head warp issue is that the cars are operating in too high of a temp range for extended times. We all know the enemy of aluminum is heat. Are the guys running Boss 302S grills blowing motors? Or those that have swapped to a higher capacity radiator? How about oil separators? Are the blown cars equipped with them or not?

I think we need more info from those that have blown up as to miles, type of miles, oil, oil usage, any and all changes from stock, etc, to get the real picture on why these motors are being lost. Ford was pretty confident that we couldn't blow these things up, and I was too. I love my car, but hate the uneasy feeling I get reading about blown motors.

 

[cloud9]

I used about 1 quart between those changes. I never add oil unless it is to the bottom mark on the stick to prevent over filling.

We did speak to a Ford engineer last year about this. He actually suggested overfilling by a quart to help with cooling. They said there are no issues with windage if you run an extra quart. It doesn't sound like overfilling will create an issue, but I understand your concern with it.